From: Annie (annie@geekbabe.com)
Date: Sun Aug 11 2002 - 00:10:56 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Oops
Densie writes
Suggestions from a newbie
Transportation
Another activity suggestion
Mothers Day
Air tour dates
Karaoke
Summary Schedule of Activities (Corrected)
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2003 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
Ongoing activity database appears on line at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org03arc/acts.html
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Oops:
Big oops, on my part.
Maybe it's just the side-effect of going blonde two nights at DLV that
caused me to miss this, and the hint, but Tina was trying to in a
humorous way try to point out my typo/oversight on the schedule summary.
Since I was editing this list very quickly earlier this week, I thought
she was maybe pointing out an alternative date set for DLV. Of course I
jumped in and mentioned yet another possible date set.
I would think that in 40-some years I would have learned that once you
open a can of worms, there is no way to re-can them. A response came in
to the date set I mentioned, and of course I chimed in and continued
with the thread, which does appear below.
FINALLY I received notes from Anya and Tina who pointed out the schedule
error and DUH it all fit together.
SOooooooo, in the absence of a serious motion (and second) to reconsider
the dates of DLV 2003, I suggest we hold off any further date discussion
and let our call for comments period continue. As you have seen, a few
comments have come in, but nothing earthshaking has been received
lately.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Tina, and everbody.
Now, somebody hand me a bigger can. :)
Tina writes:
>>>There seems to be quite a black hole here between Friday April 25 and
>>>Saturday May 4. Are we off on some major bender or serving time on the
>>>county chain gang? Pardon me boss, I think I broke my spike heel and
>>>chipped another nail this time.
>>The first week of May is N+I. That will lock me (and those others who
>>attend N+I) out of at least some of DLV, and possibly lock me out of all
>>of it. <snip>
>?????????
>I guess I was being too cute.
No such thing as too cute. :) Ask Shirley Temple. :)
>I wasn't proposing considering moving DLV, and I sure wasn't trying to
>propose any schedule changes that would cause conflicts. I was just
>talking about an error in the listed schedule dates jumping from April
>to May (see asterisked highhlight below) instead of maintaining a
>list of consecutive dates, and suggesting that it be corrected. :-)
**DUH**
>Apr 25 Fri
>********* See this giant gap from April 25 to May 4?
> *********************
>******* Do you maybe mean Sat Apr 26 and Sun Apr 27 instead ?????????????
>May 04 Sat
Yes {blush}. (Checking once again to be sure I'm not going prematurely
blonde.)
Oops.
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Densie writes:
>>>Nope that doesn't work for Denise 'cause she wants Air Tours on Wed and
>>>Thurs
>Actually that was just a suggestion. Friday is fine with me.
>>it seems to me that air tours could be rescheduled more easily than the
>>other two if necessary.
>Well! It's nice to know where we stand.
:)
>>>Also I think some of us (me for example) may have decided quite late
>>>(but prior to the day) not to attend the Slumber party. How many people
>>>have E-mail access while in LV? And who cares.
>Not I, said the little red hen. The last thing in the world I want
>while on vacation is to have to check email.
>>What I think I'm hearing is that you think a nice note (as opposed to a
>>separately mailed bitch-o-gram) in the mailings, suggesting a donation
>>to those who wish absolution and restitution, is in order. Am I correct?
>Better be careful...we could end up with a DLV Protestant Reformation
>or something. Personally, I intend to have a statue carved, which
>will stand in front of Imperial Palace and pray for absoution for my
>gambling, abuse of alcohol, those 1000 fpm descents that Gina can't
>stand, and any other opportunity to sin that I may be fortunate enough
>to encounter.
>>One suggestion I would make would be to have some kind of arrangement
>>made for liquid refreshments in advance.
>We were gonna do that last year, but somehow we ended up at the liquor
>store again. I suggest that whomever won't be attending the show
>before the tour, and has a rental car, should take up a booze
>collection and have it ready to go before we start.
>>>Nametags: I think these worked really well at DLV'02 and I once again
>Blah....phooey!
So noted. :)
>>>...I would like to make a suggestion for a DLV activity. A trip to one
>>>of the strip clubs might be fun. I know its something my wife and I
>>>would enjoy.
>Then maybe we could all migrate over to a swinger's bar.
Actually, that has been suggested.
>>>I'm concerned about the wording on this. I think we need to clarify
>>>this. I would hope that me wearing a striped pullover dress and white
>>>sandals would be all right. That kind of stands out. What are we
>>>getting at here.
>It's not about a dress code. We've always tried to have some activity
>where everyone can dress up in fetish wear, and shows for the evening
>gowns, but you don't want to show up for air tours wearing rubber
>boobs, a sheer top and riding crop. By dressing inappropriately,
>someone might call unwanted attention to the group and cause a scene.
>>I'll pencil in a Bellagio buffet lunch for Thursday then. If we have
>>to move it, then we move it.
>Traditionally, the Bellagio Buffet has been after the air tours
>complete, and we don't know exactly when that will be, so don't pencil
>it in too tight.
>>>I'm glad it worked out for you. I must admit that when i ate at the
>>>buffet at the IP it was pretty poor.
>Maybe you ate the plastic fruit by mistake?
LOL
>>As for breakfast/brunch, the only noonish meal we have proposed so far
>>is at the Bellagio. I doubt if people would wanna have a daily meal at
>>those prices. :)
>I think I could do Bellagio Buffet more than once, maybe even every day.
>It doesn't cost any more than eating at a low-end restaurant anywhere
>else.
>>>>>Is Sasha's was the place that people were leaving because they
>>>>>couldn't get a drink?
>>>>Yes, Saturday evening. Severely understaffed.
>Did the other bartender call in sick?
What other bartender? Oh, yes, the one with the shirt. :) :) :) :)
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Suggestions from a newbie:
Ginger writes:
>Here are a couple of suggestions, however, keep in mind they are coming
>from the perspective of a first timer who had been out only a little
>before DLV 2002.
>I’d like to suggest:
>(1) A first day and/or pre-gathering afternoon outing to the Hidden
>Woman, Glamour Boutique, or elsewhere for nails, etc., especially for
>newbies.” This would help the novice find expert help that just might
>give her the basics, accessories, and confidence to get out.
>I wanted to get my nails done upon arrival, but didn't because I wasn't
>sure if there was enough time, didn't have a ride or the confidence to
>take a cab, and add whatever other excuses you want.
>Later in the week when we finally got to the Glamour Boutique,
>Stephanie Williams was especially helpful with new hair for me and I
>had planned to go back for a make-over. However, I never made a firm
>appointment, and since we stayed at the mall too long on the scheduled
>day, I never got back.
>Next year I'll have the confidence to call her up, schedule a makeover,
>and if necessary, take a cab, but as a first timer it was all just too
>much.
>Moreover, when we finally did get to these venues, the crowd was larger
>than could comfortably be accommodated.
>This also might be a good orientation session for novices and first
>timers and allow them an opportunity to make friends with a big
>sister and learn some basic expectations about DLV dress and behavior.
>As a group activity, it could be suggested for novices and first timers
>and big-sister volunteers.
We could do an afternoon gathering at one of the shops quite easily. I'm
kind of assuming that both will want to have some kind of open house
type of thing.
I do want to be sure that as long as both shops continue to support DLV,
we treat them equally as far as visibility and schedule time.
I do agree that both of the places were totally buried by our crowd, and
those were not the best times for any one-on-one attention.
>(2) Unlike the shows and limo ride, support for the slumber party was
>on the honor system and poorly supported. While I attended and
>contributed, again as a beginner, I didn't realize the hostesses were
>personally footing such a large expense and can see why others didn't
>feel an obligation to attend or make a contribution.
>When something expensive like this is scheduled, a sign-up and even
>advance payment would be order to lessen misunderstandings! Then, the
>event could be cancelled or greatly reduced in scope if only a few
>wanted to make a firm commitment.
I think this is one lesson we learned the hard way.
As I think back (20/20 hindsight) I think that if the people could have
been free to come and go as they please, the overall attendance at this
would have been much higher.
>Overall DLV 2002 was a wonderful experience!
Thanks. I think most will agree with you. :)
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Transportation:
>>1. Keep the same procedure we have. Everybody ultimately responsible for
[snip]
>Did anyone have any insurmountable problem finding a ride? Most had
>their own cars from what I could see.
Survey and verbal feedback says that difficulty getting a ride was the
exception and not the rule.
>I prefer to drive myself. I was very nervous about it at first but
>I'm getting more easy. I know others like to drive themself too.
Looking again at the survey, a total of 23 out of 39 (majority of
respondents) said they primarily used either their own private vehicle
or their own rental vehicle for local transportation.
>>2. Streamline the process. Ask those who need rides to stay in one of
>>our suggested hotels. Ask all drivers to swing by the pick-up point at
>good idea.
>>3. Chartered shuttle. If this is to work, those using it **MUST** be
>Might work for going to an event, but everyone wants to leave at
>different times and some want to go some place else, not back to the
>hotel.
As we've discussed, this will only work if people are ready to go at
a designated time, both coming and going. They may be willing to do
multiple drop-offs on the way back.
As I (think ) said, we'll query the general DLV audience in the next
mailing to see if we can get a reading on the demand for this.
>>Comments ladies? (Gentlemen?)
>Yes. Problem was not getting a ride, problem was traffic and parking.
>Traffic was MURDER going down to Sahara and up the strip.
>and there was NO parking for the show on Saturday, and NO parking for
>the club afterwards.
Traffic can be congested at times, I admit. I tried to give directions
that avoided the choke points, but the monorail construction on Paradise
did slow the northbound traffic significantly at times.
The Strip is almost always congested. Avoid it!
For the "show on Saturday", I assume you mean La Cage. Yes, the front
valet park was full, but a quick bribe to the attendant made it go
un-full, at least in our case. There were also two large structures to
the rear of the hotel. A hike I admit, but I've never seen them both
full. There were notes stating to allow time to self-park and giving
directions on where the structures are.
Now, parking at Sasha's that evening was very difficult. They were in
the process of setting up valet parking, using one of the nearby rental
car lots. I don't know if this has happened yet.
>Consider timing events so they don't start right
>at traffic congestion times.
That's much easier said than done. Strip will almost always be
congested. (Endless loop -- stay away.) Evening rush begins about 4:00pm
and lasts until about 7:00pm, a timeframe in which we will almost always
have an activity starting. However, it does not seem to me that the
early evening weekday activities were the ones where people had trouble
with traffic or with parking. The ones I've heard problems with are:
Slumber party, Wednesday, Residence Inn. Access problems. This is really
a special case.
La Cage, Saturday, Riviera, Parking difficulty.
Sasha's, Saturday. Parking problems.
Thinking back, I remember getting phone calls from people having trouble
finding Milano's and Sasha's. Those are the only ones I remember.
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Another activity suggestion:
>This is something you all might like, The Sandy Hackett Comedy Club
>at "Greek Isles" has a womens improv night every Wednesday. Just a
>thought.
This does sound like fun. To me, anyway. :) Ladies? (Gentlemen?)
For those who don't recognize Greek Isles, this is the old Debbie
Reynolds (nee Paddlewheel) on Convention Center Drive just down from the
Stardust.
Since this occurs only on one evening, I'll pencil it in on the schedule
and we can keep it or dump it. It's quite possible that some of our
weekday evenings will be multi-tracked this coming year.
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Mothers Day:
As I mentioned above, I wrote this response before I realized I had
opened a can of worms. I'm leaving Leah's note and my response mostly
untouched. I think it's best if we hold off any date reconsideration
(yeah, better practice what I preach) until the call for comments period
is winding to a close. {oops}
Leah writes:
>Yeah, the calendar isn't cooperating this year but just my thoughts on
>the week leading up to Mother's Day.....
>Realistically, and not from a morbid sense, I think given the age group
>of DLV the possibility exists that many of the Mothers of our
>participants have lived long and fruitful lives and are now in a better
>place. Also, how many people actually live close enough to their Mom
>where they would plan a visit on Mother's Day?
>If the concern is with their spouse, couldn't they work that out easily
>especially if the spouse is amenable to them attending DLV regardless
>of the date? I would expect most people only call their Mom for
>Mother's Day rather than visit due to whatever reason and maybe a
>general note to the big list with a vote procedure might show that the
>week before Mother's Day may be operative.
[cut-paste]
>I really don't see Mother's Day as a barrier.....lots of people leave
>on Sunday anyway to prepare for the work week and can schedule their
>flights to still have time to take Mom for a nice dinner if they want.
>I think the number that this will affect is relatively small.
Thinking back to the first DLV (dusting off rusty memory cells) I seem
to remember that the reason Deb (or somebody?) could not join us for the
Frank Marino show was that she was expected to be with the family on
Mothers Day.
I vaguely recall that there was a (slight, worked around) schedule issue
with the dam tour in 1998 for the same reason.
In 1997 and 1998, none of those who traveled had any Mothers Day
commitments, possibly by coincidence.
In 1999 DLV did not intersect with Mothers Day. Not intentionally, it just
happened that way.
In late 1999 when we set the DLV 2000 dates, the issue surfaced. Here are
two items in the org list that you might want to pull up.
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/orgarc/0027.html
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/orgarc/0028.html
It was decided at that time to not change the proposed dates, and let
DLV go on, over Mothers Day, for better or worse, and to avoid Mothers
Day in the future.
Mothers Day gave us no obvious reduction in the number of people who
attended in 2000.
Personally, I don't see Mothers Day as a barrier, but I'm not everybody.
Some people have indeed indicated that family commitments would cause
problems.
>Yeah, it will be a little warmer then but we can't predict the
>weather.... that week after DLV was a fluke and miserably hot as those
>who stayed for the convention could attest but we had great weather for
>Diva I thought.
Hmmmm ... I don't really remember it being that hot during N+I week.
But again, the Convention Center was air conditioned, the casinos were
air conditioned ...
>Don't have the Esprit dates handy but if that week falls the week
>before we may be able to capture some weekenders on their way there
>too.
The effects of the proximity of dates of t* events has been the subject
of much speculation over the years. General consensus is that two or
more events close to each other in date will seldom if ever reinforce
each other, and if anything, will dilute each other.
History has shown that very few people have the luxury of (time off,
$$$) doing two or more major t* events back to back or in a short time.
Survey results and verbal remarks show that we don't really draw from
the same pool of people who are the convention regulars, however.
The smaller regionals (of which Esprit is one) don't have the geographic
reach we do, plus, we are the singularity and most of the others are
essentially regional clones of each other.
Except for maybe Fanfair and Southern Comfort, I don't see there being
any other events that would syphon participants away from us, and those
two are so far removed from us on the calendar that the effect is nil.
But enough for this digression ... :)
>It seems like this (May 6-11) week will solve a few logistics problems
>and maybe we should look at it again?
If we do reconsider dates, I wanna be sure it's an action to a definite
need, and not a reaction. I don't wanna see us consume considerable
mental energy, possibly make a suboptimal thing worse, or even having to
reconsider yet again after the second setting of dates, etc.
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Air tour dates:
Gina writes:
>I don't really care, actually I could do them a couple of mornings if
>that would work better. That way it doesn't wipe out a whole morning
>for me, and the air is smoother in the AM.
>Your wish is my command....
Let's hold off on a final decision on this until the harder to schedule
things like golf are decided upon. Yes, it could easily be multiple days
if you and/or Densie don't mind. That way almost nobody would be locked
out of it.
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Karaoke:
>>>Karokee: Well, Tina and I will be very upset if we don't have a chance
>>>to do Karokee again. Perhpas a pre-DLV event.
>>IIRC, Flex has this on Monday, which does not officially hit our
>>proposed schedule, and Goodtimes has this on Wednesday, which does.
>>Since this is a fixed-day/time thing, I'm gonna put this in for
>>Wednesday following the Club Girl Talk, keeping in mind that this can
>>easily be two-tracked.
>Well, I do certainly enjoy singing karaoke, and who can forget Densie's
>great rendition of RHPS excerpts in 2002. Although Flex and Goodtimes
>have been pretty stable the last few years about their karaoke nights,
>this is always subject to change, so I'll definitely do my last-minute
>annual karaoke report in April 2003.
>It's fun, it's low-key (oh, what a bad pun),
Don't forget to say it's a real TRIP! :) :) :)
>and usually held in a
>great place to relax and socialize. But karaoke is also definitely a
>low-priority 2nd track kind of thing. You shouldn't hesitate to put
>something major (show, limo, whatever) on that night as the primary
>event.
That's always been the intent of Karaoke on the schedule. I'm sure it
will get two-tracked. I think I even mentioned Wednesday as a possible
limo tour evening.
>Personally, I would recommend that you not even list karaoke yet, so
>that it is clear that there is still a major late-night hole in the
>schedule there.
I put that in there since it occurs on that one night. Our schedule is
really a scratch pad now, with nothing at all in stone. We had another
Wednesday suggestion which I'm putting in as well. Of course we can
kill/move one or the other or both as the schedule develops. I don't
think we can consider anything to be definite this far out in the game.
>By the way, how late does Club Girl Talk usually run?
When I was there, and remember it was small and had just started, it was
winding down around 10:00 or so, iirc. When it has more people, I'm sure
it will last longer. I'm sure it's one of those things that can be quite
flexible.
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Summary Schedule of Activities (Corrected):
Date Day Time Activity
========== ========= =========
Apr 22 Tue
Eve Pre-DLV get-together
Apr 23 Wed
5:30pm Happy Hour (Sasha's)
6:30pm Dinner (Sasha's / Milano's)
8:00pm Club Girl Talk
???? Womens Improv (Greek Isles)
10:30pm Karaoke (Goodtimes)
Apr 24 Thu
Morn Air tours
Noonish Bellagio buffet lunch
Apr 25 Fri
Eve Happy Hour (Carluccio's)
after Carluccio's dinner
after Annual Mixer
after Dance Night
Apr 26 Sat
7:00pm Happy Hour (San Remp)
8:00pm Buffet dinner, San Remo
10:30pm Showgirls Of Magic
Apr 27 Sun
Aft High Tea
Eve Farewell Get-together
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