From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Wed Jun 08 2005 - 08:11:31 CDT
In this mailing:
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Comments and observations
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Keeping up with the schedule
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2006 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
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This mailing:
This mailing is a bit long, but there's lots of very good discussion
below. Let's keep it up, gang. :) This mailing includes everything
received up to Tuesday evening.
I'm going to voice some rather strong opinions in a few places in this
and the next few mailings, and in many places I'm questioning ideas, and
not the person(s) who presented them, so please don't take anything
personally.
Everybody here is, of course, welcome and encouraged to voice
equally strong opinions. :)
Late note: Due to the length of this mailing, I'm holding my B/D/R
incident summary and my feedback comment response until the next
mailing. If you wanna see all of the "World According To Annie" stuff
held off, just keep sending other stuff in. :) :) :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Comments and observations:
Moderator's note: This is Mindy's submission complete in first person
with minimal editing and no response yet. I'll respond and comment in
the next mailing. (If there is room.) :)
. . . . .
Mindy writes:
i agree with the proposed dates.. seems to work fine for me..
dont let the sour grapes get to ya.. it seems the expectations for diva
are so high a few bumps in the road get to a few people. i look at the
problems from this years diva as a learning experience.. ie i will get
prices in writing in the future.
on the subject of golf.. would be great if we can do away with the
conflict between the big night out and golf.. i know it will be hard as
golf should be scheduled the morning after a low key night and with late
starting activities the same evening as the golf.. there is some
resistance to changing the golf day but if it will improve the turn out
and enjoyment i will be willing to consider another day.. the reason we
avoid friday and sat for golf is that the prices are higher. i dont know
how much longer we can keep getting the low rates.. this year we got
considerabley less then other groups scheduling golf outtings. partly
because of our loyality to the course and partly because of our
entertainment value *lol*
to michelle and susan.. as a person with a cronic illness my heart goes
out to you.. from meeting susan it seems she is the type of person who
will do her best to make lemonaid out of lemons. she is in our
prayers..
on the subject of the length of diva.. whats all the noise.. let if run
its natural length.. many people come early and low key events starting
as early as sat seem fine with me.. i rarely attend those but they seem
well supported and orginized.. in the past we have has informal events
as late as the monday following the "official" end of diva with no
problems. it does make sense to have the core events between monday and
sat. as this is the time the majority of people attend.. but remeber
annie its a vacation not a convention and people will come and go as
thier own personal schedule permits.
dress code.. ya its needed.. and the major offenders need to be taken to
task or excluded if they wont follow along with the plan.. perhaps we
need to schedule a couple of more dress to thrill alternative events. i
was happy with having NSD to dress over the top.. but maybe some of the
girls need a couple of more outlets.. might even suggest to one or all
of them the do the org work on some club dress activities. i might even
be able to suggest a couple of places they could do this.
yes the situation with zingers was a mess and it did cause for some hard
feelings.. i am sad to report that the situation still continues. i
dont have enough info to know for sure whats going on but some past
employees are unhappy and rikki feels justified makeing what she sees
and needed business decisions.. i suggest we leave the zingers issues
aside until the issue resolves itself on a local level. i for one am not
making any decision one way or the other about zingers until i see a
problem when i go there. all i can say is that rikki did accomidate us
in the on and off pity party and unless things change it will be there
next year.
dinners.. wow what a wide range of responses.. i agree a couple of the
places had problems. i for one have never been 100% happy with HM even
with small groups.. i guess tradition sort of gets us there each year.
if tradition rules i will attend HM if the group agrees..
Bahama Breeze.. we should talk to management and let them know our
problems and see if they would consider provinding more staff in the
future.. if they wont we can consider other resturants.. remember we can
vote with our dollers too.
Paddies is a great place but dont plan on big dinner groups there.. they
have a great staff but its limited to on bartender, cook, and server at
any one time and they dont serve after 9 pm.. the food is great.. its
one of my fav places in las vegas.. its perfect for a mainstream
cocktails and conversation.. but for dinner should be limited to smaller
dining out groups. also a couple of new places that us local girls will
be checking out.. will send info as we get it re those.. i even had a
conversation with my fav local watering hole near my new home and they
would love to see us include them in our approved list of places.
again.. seems dollers get some attention.
interesting feedback from the boardwalk (for those of you who dont know
i work there) they noticed several girls stayed there and took advantage
to a small extent of the gaming and resturants.. they wondered why we
didnt schedule any social events there. after a bad experience there a
couple of years ago with some of the diva people the boardwalk made some
written policy changes to accomidate t's.. not just for diva but 365
days a year. next year will most likely be the last for the boardwalk..
it is going to be imploded sometime after may of 2006. i would like to
see us do one last event next year there.. it could be a gaming night..
show. cheap show if ya like mo-town or a prince tribute band.. or
bloody mary socials a couple of mornings.. they do have the best bloody
marys on the strip. and besides they have been very accomidating
regarding my health problems and worked with me to develop a t policy
that is fair to both the t community and thier regular clients. i
noticed that the feedback form showed that the girls who stayed there
this year were pleased.
one of the things i enjoyed most this year was the chance to go to some
places where we could sit and talk without having to deal with all the
noise usually associated with past diva venues.. i think we should keep
on the schedule some alternative places several times during the week
where those who want to can chat over cocktails.. paddies was a perfect
example this year.. we went there twice and had a wonderful time
chatting without having to holler..
as for those who would like to see diva attendence limited. well all i
can say is go start an invitation only t party.. one of the great things
about diva is seeing the 1st timers bloom.. i know this makes it bigger
and harder to deal with each year but one of the most important things i
think diva does is give people a fun chance to get out of the closet.. i
for one have my small group to do things with. diva needs to continue
to be a place that our little sisters can get out in a safe supprortive
setting. remember the more of us who get comfortable with being out and
about the more the public will get used to us.. and accept us.
little sisters who s*** on big sisters shame on you.. i got a little
sister by default and we had a grand time and are still in contact.. i
suggest if you have never had a little sister get one.. you learn a lot
helping them.
well thats my 2 cents worth..
mindy
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Comments on comments:
Mostly in response to Michelle's (NZ) notes ...
>ANNIE: Is it actually possible that we all get a list of who's actually
>now subscribed to DLVORG? Is it appropriate?
I have the raw mailing list, of course, and I admit that I don't know
the actual name behind each address on the list right off hand, but I'll
go through it and see if I can post a roster of some degree of
completeness.
Late note: Look for the item below.
>My perception is that
>there is possibly a large number but only a percentage ever take active
>part over the year; True?
I purge the undeliverables quite regularly. Last year I cleaned up the
list quite a bit by removing most of those who did not attend DLV 2004
and did not request to remain on the list. I didn't do that again this
year, no particular reason, just didn't do it. :)
If you look at the roster below, yes, the majority are indeed active
in one way or another.
. . . . .
>4. But I will host another EON dinner if this is scheduled...
We have witnesses to this! :)
I'm sure that we will repeat EON, and quite possibly there will be
other multi-track dining things as well.
. . . . .
>>I see the following as a calendar to go forward this year:
[bobbitt]
>I think there some dates missing here based on what I perceived to have
>happened this year. If we require pre DLV payments to be made, then I
>believe the dates that reservations for these activities opening and
>payment required by should be locked in and published early.
Yes, it would be good if there were one uniform cut-off date for
prepayment for all activities that need or offer it.
This would require all of those who are seeking such prepayment to agree
to a date, and of course be sure things are solid by that date.
A prerequisite to a prepayment cutoff date would be that all activities
that either required prepayment or offered it would have to be solid
prior to that date.
Other milestone dates can be set, of course, if the group here agrees
that they are appropriate.
. . . . .
>There's one particularly rough spot about eighty miles into the Nevada
>desert on the dirt road to Death Valley that even managed to project a
>Hummer H1 into the air.....but I guess you're really not talking about
>this rough spots!
Actually, we will be doing the Death Valley trip next year, if somebody
wants to bring an off-road vehicle, then they can certainly deal with
this rough spot. :)
. . . . .
>I think the definition of non trivial needs to be clarified and
>clarified early.
There may not be any clear-cut line between what I'm calling trivial and
what I'm calling nontrivial activities. Things such as many of the bar
gatherings are obviously trivial. Just name a place and go there.
Those which require reservations, money collection, headcounts, etc.,
are obviously nontrivial.
I think anything which we think requires a coordinator of some kind,
even if the coordinator is more of just a face to be seen or a
host/hostess or babysitter, should probably be considered nontrivial.
>Not trying to be awkward but I think an early statement/ definition
>will help down the track as a basis for requiring the second volunteer.
Ok, I'll go on record now with this. Anything that needs one coordinator
needs a second coordinator, even if it's just for back-up, and by
definition is nontrivial.
. . . . .
>Las Vegas must have one of the best selections of fine dining and
>quality entertainment venues and acts of anywhere in the world and I
>think we (as a group) should be prepared to take full advantage of
>that.
I agree that we should continue to expand our list of venues for food,
drink, and entertainment.
And, it's up to us to seek out and suggest new venues.
>As for expensive...there are lots of places that can easily go into the
>upper price ranges. From my experience the better places generally do
>look after you in girl or boy mode.
I see the more expensive places as viable options for things like Eating
Out Night, where those who want it (and claim to afford it) can have it.
Of course there will be other more reasonably-priced options at the same
time.
>My one reservation in making these comments is that there remains a few
>people who refuse to DRESS PROPERLY for the occasion and bring us all
>into disrepute and shame!
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that there was NO WAY
anybody could have missed our requests to dress properly. They were
either totally clueless as to what was appropriate, or else they were
saying "f*ck you, I'm doing what I want" to our requests to dress and
act appropriately.
This may sound harsh, but we don't need those who refuse to dress and
act properly, in particular those who have done so over multiple years.
IMAO, they should be un-invited.
>>The consensus of the organizers I've talked to is that we need to go
>>back to our 2004 level of attention to behavior, dress, and restroom
[deletia]
>>Most importantly, however, if and when a violation occurs, we need to
>>immediately deal with it as was outlined in our B/D/R document for
>Has there been a formal presentation of background and circumstances of
>the Restroom issues? Do we know the full story(s).
I've put down the facts, and some opinion, in an item that will go out
in the next mailing. This can serve as the start of a thread on just
this.
>From what I've seen we've had communication issues (with respect to San
>Remo's agreement with the locals about which rest room to use) and some
>unfortunate circumstances, re the older woman's complaint from Bellagio.
I still don't know what the full story is at the San Remo, like exactly
what the policy is, to whom it applies and when, and who negotiated
this. (Does anybody? Those I've asked didn't claim to know.)
What I do know is that we slacked off on our attention to B/D/R and
we had a sharp rise in incidents.
. . . . .
>>I will go as far as to nominate the timeframe of April 23 (or 24 - see
>>below) thru April 29 for DLV 2006.
>From my perspective this works out well and seems to be, more or less a
>repeat of the proposed week for next year, that is, last week in April,
>the week before N+I and avoiding all major holiday's and commitments
>such as Mothers Day. And from a pure local and somewhat selfish
>perspective, it includes April 25th which a holiday here in NZ, which
>makes taking the time away a little easier.
I really don't see how we can do any better than this.
Sure, some timeframes may be better for some people, but overall, this
seems to be good, as it avoids (I think) the hot button dates and
usually has nice weather.
Julie: Have the dates for the Laughlin River Run been selected?
>I would like to offer for discussion a proposal for a 6-day DLV in 2006,
>Not sure I'm happy with logic behind this. Here's how I see a
>significant (not a majority) number of people attend DLV. They take the
>week off for DLV and travel to Las Vegas either on the Friday or
>Saturday before, stay the week and head home, typically it appears,
>late on the Saturday or on the Sunday.
Ok, Michelle, you walked into this one. If you're in favor of a 7-day
DLV, are you willing to commit to coordinating or assisting with one
more nontrival activity than you did in 2005? :) :)
How about the others in favor of a 7-day DLV? Are you personally
willing to put forth the effort to be sure we have a rich and solid
slate of activities over the whole 7 days?
>For the past two or three years there has been a traditional Church
>service on attendance on the first Sunday, which appears to be well
>attended and received?
Six days does not preclude having a Sunday within that span.
>My opinion is that DLV wasn't too long but the end was again an anti
>climax, complicated by some late rescheduling of activities (Carluccios
>to Saturday for example).
Yes, I agree, we had a weak ending.
>For me the big days were Tuesday (NSD) through Friday (especially
>through to the limo tour on Thurs night.
And looking back, the high points were indeed the mid days of the
week.
>For various cost and attendance reasons golf needs to be Thursday. Does
>the same apply to the show and limo tour?
To question is the answer. Why does golf have to be Thursday? Does your
statement really apply to the 7-day Sun-Sat model?
To answer your question, however, no, shows and limo tours do not have
to occur on Thursday. Shows happen every night (yes, some are dark on
some nights) and limos are available 24x7x365.
One principle for scheduling the limo tour was that it was not to be
on the evening prior to golf, as to not spoil the golf turnout.
>While not trying to create a schedule of activities for this event I
>think one of the key things is to get the overall structure resolved
>early and then plug in the specific activities / venues.
[munch]
>This ,means that nothing that needs to be reserved prepaid occurs
>before Day 3 (Tuesday)
I do like a couple things here, one that the first 2 days are a low-key
start, and that no prepaid activities occur before the third day. As I
look back, that's more or less what we've been doing.
>It appears to me with seeing the actual survey results and the summary
>doesn't seem to mention it, that most people are arriving on
>Friday/Saturday/ Sunday (irrespective of when they subsequently leave)
Each year we see more and more people attend longer, and yes, over the
past several years there have been fewer weekend-only and more weeklong
people.
We did have people arrive and leave each day.
We also had some bail on Friday, citing the higher room rates for the
next 2 days.
We had some leave on Saturday, citing the need to get going and prepare
for the work week on Monday.
>I would personally like to see the schedule better balanced with a big
>show and limo tour type of activity on Saturday night with perhaps
>significant activities on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday nights.
Saturday night may be an issue for a limo tour. The Strip area has
become congested every night, and Friday and Saturday are really bad.
I see this falling over into a lack of parking/staging area at the
hotels on the Strip as well on Friday and Saturday.
>Despite my previous comments, and in respect of those that found
>contacting the group as newbies I think there needs to be two major (no
>alternative) meetings in an appropriate location.
By that I take it you mean maximum-turnout single-track activities.
I agree, and there are several comments to this effect.
>Carrying on with some suggestions I saw the EON as being generally
>successful and while I was only responsible for one (Bertolini's) it
>seems like the other were equally well organised and enjoyed.
For the most part, yes. Milano's was overloaded, as we got a crowd far
in excess of the high end of my estimate. The one venue that was not
rated highly really didn't have enough samples on the survey to be
considered significant.
>Perhaps this could be scheduled for Wednesday (as this year or Friday
>night) before a late night show (in which case Wednesday would probably
>be better)
I'm even thinking that two split-group dining evenings may be in order.
Smaller groups do have many advantages.
>Saturday should be a climax type day with perhaps a HH/Dinner before a
>show and then late night limo tour and early morning drinking (eg
>Charles Bar, etc)
>>I challenge those who oppose the 6-day limit to say to the effect
>>"I'm in favor of a 7-day DLV and I personally volunteer to coordinate
>>one more nontrivial activity than I did in 2005."
>I'm happy to do the EON thing again!
Ok, and what OTHER activity do you want to coordinate? :) <vbfg> (Hey,
you walked right into that one!) :)
But seriously, I am very concerned about the length of the event and I
am very concerned about the limits there are on our desire and ability
to fill 7 days with activities of the quality that our people have
come to expect.
I hear everybody wanting a longer DLV, but I still have yet to hear
anybody say for the record, "I am willing to coordinate ONE MORE
nontrivial activity ..."
And I'm really not talking about those who already coordinate multiple
things. We just need to have greater hands-on participation in the
planning and organization of the activities.
. . .
Let me also question what many believe to be a done deal, and that is
the start of DLV toward the beginning of a week and the ending on a
weekend. (Yes, to question is the answer.)
Do we want to again consider having DLV straddle a weekend as we have
done several times in the past, 1998 - 2001, IIRC?
. . . . .
>The end result is that Susan was diagnosed with Chronic Myeloid
>Leukaemia (CML). While serious it is not terminal in its current state
>and she is now responding well to the drugs.
I'm certainly glad that it appears to be treatable. We very much
enjoyed Susan's participation this year. We with her the best and
hope she can again accompany you to DLVs in the future.
>I know that a number of people both on this list and those on the
>DLVDISC have made comment about there interaction with both Susan and
>and Kay (Ginger's SO)
Susan's attendance was, IMAO, a great benefit to DLV, as was Kay's and
other SO's. I noticed this year that the SO's were quite active with the
group, and in many cases came to activities unescorted if their partner
did not wish to attend. I see this as a good omen. Be sure to remember
that regular social interaction is important to good health. :) We can
certainly help out in that respect. :)
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Comments:
Jamie writes:
>My feelings on the days to schedule is that many of the attendees will
>arrive on Sat. They will be looking for something to do that evening
>and Sunday. The Church visit is very good PR for our group, as well as
>a very good personal experience. I feel that there will be an informal
>plan set up for Sunday, even if we decide not to have an actual
>starting point. Someone mentioned having events that were optional and
>non pay on Sunday. Maybe this would be a good way to handle the
>scheduling.The formal Kick-off could be om Monday evening, and several
>non-formal events that early arrivals could get together at for Sat
>evening and Sunday.
What in essence we would have here again is schedule creep, where the
event is actually extended to run 8 days, Saturday to Saturday.
Michelle does have a good idea to limit the more intense activities
to the third and subsequent days, but we need to take a look at the
length of our calendar and we do have to draw the line somewhere.
If the commitment is there to run an 8-day affair, I won't fight it,
but quite honestly I'm not seeing it.
Those who want to see a 7-8 DLV, please step forward and volunteer. just
say what activities (list a few) you are willing to coordinate or assist
with.
Even if we would place 2 days of informal no-sign-up-just-show-up items
prior to our official start on Monday, those would still require some
planning and coordination. This does dilute the resources. Informal
or "trivial" activities don't have as much of a drain as those which
require a lot of busy work, but they do have their overall impact.
>Tootsey and I have decided that two years of doing the Lomo Tour is
>enough. There have been several people comment that they would like to
>see something different, so Ladies, Have at it. We, both, will be
>available for consultation if anyone has questions about the mechanics
>of getting the Tour set-up.
First of all I want to thank both of you for the two best limo tours
in DLV history. I have no complaints, and I thought the 2004 and 2005
tours were most enjoyable. This is one activity that was again highly
rated this year.
I personally would not like to see something different. IMAO, it ain't
broke, it don't need fixed! {Thinking of the English majors in the room
cringing at that one.} :)
I do know that there are other ideas WRT limo tours. The one that seems
to keep coming up is the idea for the stretched "Hummer" type vehicles,
yes, the ones that are now trendy for proms.
Personally, I don't think I would enjoy that type of a ride as much as
the regular limos, but since I haven't tried it, I won't know for sure
until it does happen, if it happens.
Who is interested in coordinating or assisting with the DLV 2006 Limo
Tour?
>The dates seem to fit into my schadule, since my Wife said that I would
>be able to attend, even though we will be spending our 20th
>anniversiary in the Virgin Islands a month eariler.
>I can be available for helping out anyone that needs help. I do live in
>Arkansas, so organizing things long distance can get tricky. If someone
>needs help, once I get there I can be available. I will be there from
>Sat to Sunday the following week. I can also help with planning and
>keeping track of people. I am adept with MS Access and Excel.
Jamie, if you would like to get more into the "Systems" end of DLV,
please let me know. As some know, I use automation extensively to do
the grunt work. I do things the way they work for me, and what works
for me may not be the way that those who will do these in 2007 and
beyond will want to do them.
I admit that I tend to avoid Microsoft applications for things like this
(even though I do such things as the final check-in lists and the survey
results in Excel). They don't "webify" very easily and there's a lot of
manual peecee work in schlepping the data from one application to
another. That's just my thing.
>I would like to see the High Tea stay in an elegant setting, so I will
>be doing some independent research. I am not wanting to step on any
>toes, but I do feel that we need to keep it high class.
I'll put you down as one who is willing to assist in the High Tea as
well. Thanks.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Keeping up with the schedule:
(directed to ORG from DLVDISC)
Ginger writes:
>>>but what if we posted a paper copy of the final DLV schedule at safe
>>>place or two, maybe Zingers and Flex, so anyone who does not have last
>>IMAO, those who do not register for DLV do not have a need to know this
>>much information about where we will be and what we will be doing.
>It seems obvious the down side is worse than the benefits of posting a
>schedule someplace. What we don't want are a bunch of curosity seekers
>hanging around our gatherings to do what ever they do which is usually
>bad! A principle I learned years ago is to never let anyone enter the
>theater door without a ticket and that seems to apply here!
>Maybe I am too compulsive as Michelle suggested nicely, but before I
>left home I printed out all of the materials and put them into a
>notebook with my reservations and other information necessary for
>modern day life....including the detailed maps Annie so kindly sends
>out -- along with some I made for myself on-line and obtained from
>AAA.
Many of our people do this. There are instructions in the LFM telling
everybody to print those things out, and many of those who are serious
about participating in our activities seem to do it.
>Consequently I made all of the gatherings I intended and found all the
>the places I was looking for first try. That seems simple enough for
>just about anyone even busy people! :)
For those who don't or can't bring printed copies, we do provide a means
of contact, and a back-up in case one should fail, like it did last
year. Everybody who registered got the contact numbers. (Amazing how
many people who answered the survey said they did not receive these,
or even stated that they did not know of the Big Sister program.) :(
We might want to do such things as adding additional phone volunteers,
but we also need to be assertive with regard to those who register being
responsible for knowing what to do and who to contact if they have any
concerns.
Let's take a poll here. How many of you would be willing to have your
cell phone number published in the LFM? {looking for raised hands}
This has been brought up several times.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Mousekateers roll call:
... count off now!
I think I have the entire list identified, along with the last year
attended.
If anybody here is not listed or listed incorrectly, please let me know.
If anybody's last year of attendance is not correct, please let me know.
For those I was not sure of I used the registration data for
interpreting both the e-mail address and last year attended.
Aiko (2005)
Annie (2005)
Annie ("The Other Annie") (2005)
Anya (2005)
Barb (2005)
Bea (2005)
Bev (2005)
Billie Lee (2005)
Brenda (2004)
Cat (2003)
Caitlin (2005)
Cheryl (2005)
Cindy (2005)
Crystal (2005)
Debbie (2005)
Densie (2005)
Diana (2005)
Diane (AZ) (2005)
Dianna (2004)
Dorothy (2005)
Edy (2005)
Gina (2005)
Ginger (2005)
Jamie (2005)
Jena (2004)
JoAnn (2005)
Julie (2005)
Julie Anne (2005)
Kate (2005)
Kathi Sue (2005)
LeeAnna (2005)
Linda (2005)
Lisa (2005)
Lori (2005)
Lorraine (UK) (2005)
Mardi (2005)
Margeth (2001)
Mari (2005)
Mary Beth (2005)
Michelle (NV) (2005)
Michelle (NZ) (2005)
Mindy (2005)
Monica (2004)
Monique (2003)
Nora (2005)
Pamela (2004)
Randi (2005)
Rhonda (2005)
Rosada (2005)
Sandi (2003)
Sarah (2005)
Sarona (2005)
Suzi (2004)
Tawni (2005)
Tina (2003)
Tony (2005)
Tootsye (2005)
Valerie (2005)
Yvonne (2005)
Jimmy! {now imagine deep robust baritone voice} ROY!
Out of 59 valid and unique entries on the list (we do have 2 ringers and
2 test entries in addition, not listed here) we have the following count
for last year attended:
2005: 48
2004: 6
2003: 4
2002: 0
2001: 1
Yes, the vast majority are indeed current.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Jun 06 2006 - 16:16:51 CDT