From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Sun Jun 05 2005 - 12:38:55 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
This mailing
Comments and Summary
2006 activities
Volunteering
Dining out
Timeframe
Sunday will never be the same
Timeframe
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2006 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
Ongoing activity database appears on the web at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org05arc/acts.html
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This mailing:
I'm kind of flushing the queue here.
There was no general mailing this morning. Not really much to say.
Several good comments about timeframe. Let's keep it up. New ORG people,
don't be afraid to speak up. :)
. . . . .
Aiko, any word on releasing the NSD photos? We're gonna need this for
the final call for vetoes on the photos.
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Comments and Summary:
Moderator's note: I'm refraining from interactively commenting on
Michelle's excellent note at this time. I'll respond to it in the next
appropriate ORG mailing. This will be complete, in first person, from
Michelle, with no editing or comments.
. . . . .
Hi
>We have several new volunteers this year. Welcome! :)
Yeah, ditto.
ANNIE: Is it actually possible that we all get a list of who's actually
now subscribed to DLVORG? Is it appropriate? My perception is that
there is possibly a large number but only a percentage ever take active
part over the year; True?
>... what you, personally, would like to do for DLV, both generally and
>specifically.
Well...
1. Write a lot of e-mails to DLV ORG
2. Argue with anyone and everyone
3. Avoid volunteering as much as possible
4. But I will host another EON dinner if this is scheduled...
>Some of our activities are trivial, and these are the ones where there's
>no formality, no sign-up, just show up. On these all we really need to
>do is agree on what to do, where, and when. Examples of these might be
>the daily Lunch With(out) Ginger, the Charles Bar, and some of our Happy
>Hours and bar gatherings.
I have a problem with this statement is that even some of the non
trivial activities should not be looked at like this. Ginger for example
was surprised with turnouts on the Monday and Tuesday (as I recall) and
I seem to remember there were comments about not being able to find the
buffet. Even trivial activities (if scheduled) still require a degree of
planning just to get people there and on time.
>One improvement we NEED to make for this coming year is to solidify our
>activities and the schedule earlier! There were too many changes too
>late in the process ....
As you say some were unavoidable. I think we need to have the proper
structure for activities in place early and then sort out the big
activities early with focus on Tuesday/Wednesday and Friday/Saturday
(see more below). I see these two pairs of days as important because we
seem to have groups that arrive over the first weekend and leave mid
week and then more arriving mid week for the ending weekend as well of
course as those that stay all week and probably really need a mid week
hiatus!
>I see the following as a calendar to go forward this year:
>July 25: Call For Votes (this group here) on DLV 2006 dates.
>July 31: Proposed DLV 2006 dates presented
>September 1: DLV 2006 dates announced.
>November 30: Suggested DLV 2006 hotels announced.
>January 1: Re-registration opens.
>February 1: Registration opens for list members.
>March 1: General registration opens.
>Six weeks prior to DLV: All activities solid. Schedule frozen.
>April 1: Activity sign-up opens. . . .
I think there some dates missing here based on what I perceived to have
happened this year. If we require pre DLV payments to be made, then I
believe the dates that reservations for these activities opening and
payment required by should be locked in and published early. If it
wasn't for Ginger I can pretty much assure you I would have missed out
on the Limo and Show requests this year.
>1. Any final summarizing, follow-up, rehashing, analyzing, etc. of DLV
>2005. In particular, let's discuss the rough spots and what we can do
>to smooth them out for DLV 2006.
There's one particularly rough spot about eighty miles into the Nevada
desert on the dirt road to Death Valley that even managed to project a
Hummer H1 into the air.....but I guess you're really not talking about
this rough spots!
Rough Spot list:
1. Activity Crush on Thursday / Friday especially for golfers
2. Dead spots and low key end on Saturday
>One ground rule I would like to establish this year is that for any
>nontrivial activity, we have TWO volunteers assigned to it BEFORE it
>goes on the calendar, no exceptions.
I think the definition of non trivial needs to be clarified and
clarified early. Any thing involving making bookings, collecting money,
requiring confirmed head counts, or pre reservation with a venue,
probably falls into this category...but that would probably eliminate
the Lake Mead Cruise as non trivial activity and it probably should be
included! Not trying to be awkward but I think an early statement/
definition will help down the track as a basis for requiring the second
volunteer.
>I didn't hear any griping this year regarding mainstream or alternative
>venues or the balance of same. The survey numbers echo this for the most
>part.
>Comments?
Well seems to me there is still quite a few comments about this along
the lines of smaller activities and more involving doing something than
sitting round in big group sessions. But admittedly part of this
probably relates to the VERY poor quality of some of the venues
(Hamburger Mary's, Bahama Breeze, Carluccio's) as much as anything else.
Las Vegas must have one of the best selections of fine dining and
quality entertainment venues and acts of anywhere in the world and I
think we (as a group) should be prepared to take full advantage of that.
This doesn't mean necessarily expensive places. Both Zingers and David
Stevens (for different reasons) were good places for our group,
necessarily mainstream (in the case of David Stevens) but had good acts,
food and service (for the most part).
As for expensive...there are lots of places that can easily go into the
upper price ranges. From my experience the better places generally do
look after you in girl or boy mode.
My one reservation in making these comments is that there remains a few
people who refuse to DRESS PROPERLY for the occasion and bring us all
into disrepute and shame!
>The consensus of the organizers I've talked to is that we need to go
>back to our 2004 level of attention to behavior, dress, and restroom
>issues. We need to continue to emphasize this at registration time, in
>our pre-DLV mailings, we need to follow our procedure to "Mirandize" our
>attendees when they check in.
>Most importantly, however, if and when a violation occurs, we need to
>immediately deal with it as was outlined in our B/D/R document for DLV
>2004.
>Comments?
Has there been a formal presentation of background and circumstances of
the Restroom issues? Do we know the full story(s).
>From what I've seen we've had communication issues (with respect to San
Remo's agreement with the locals about which rest room to use) and some
unfortunate circumstances, re the older woman's complaint from Bellagio.
>Dates for DLV 2006:
>The floor is now open for discussion of the DLV 2006 dates.
>I will go as far as to nominate the timeframe of April 23 (or 24 - see
>below) thru April 29 for DLV 2006.
From my perspective this works out well and seems to be, more or less a
repeat of the proposed week for next year, that is, last week in April,
the week before N+I and avoiding all major holiday's and commitments
such as Mothers Day. And from a pure local and somewhat selfish
perspective, it includes April 25th which a holiday here in NZ, which
makes taking the time away a little easier.
>I would like to offer for discussion a proposal for a 6-day DLV in 2006,
>beginning on a Monday and ending on a Saturday. I would much rather have
>a 6-day event with a strong set of activities, particularly toward the
>end, than a 7-day event with a weak ending.
Not sure I'm happy with logic behind this. Here's how I see a
significant (not a majority) number of people attend DLV. They take the
week off for DLV and travel to Las Vegas either on the Friday or
Saturday before, stay the week and head home, typically it appears, late
on the Saturday or on the Sunday.
For the past two or three years there has been a traditional Church
service on attendance on the first Sunday, which appears to be well
attended and received?
My opinion is that DLV wasn't too long but the end was again an anti
climax, complicated by some late rescheduling of activities (Carluccios
to Saturday for example). For me the big days were Tuesday (NSD) through
Friday (especially through to the limo tour on Thurs night. By Saturday
I and some of those I associated with (who shall remain nameless for
their own protection!:-) ) were really thinking about and organising our
own end of party stuff.
Also the Thursday / Friday schedule was hell for some of us (golf, Show,
Limo, Charles bar, catnap, Bellagio lunch, and then on to David Stevens,
etc)
For various cost and attendance reasons golf needs to be Thursday. Does
the same apply to the show and limo tour?
While not trying to create a schedule of activities for this event I
think one of the key things is to get the overall structure resolved
early and then plug in the specific activities / venues.
Saturday | Travel Arrival | Informal / Pre DLV activities
Sunday | DLV Day 1 | Organised activities Low Key
| Travel Arrival |
Monday | DLV Day 2 | Organised Activities Low Key
Tuesday | DLV Day 3 | Organised Activities
Wednesday | DLV Day 4 | Organised Activities
Thursday | DLV Day 5 | Organised Activities
Friday | DLV Day 6 | Organised Activities
Saturday | DLV Day 7 | Organised Activities
| Travel Departure |
Sunday | Travel Departure | Informal / Post DLV activities
A couple of pints on this: Low Key activities refers to those that NO
booking, prepayment, pre reservations are required. Organised means they
appear on the DLV OFFICIAL schedule and are formally recognised as such.
This ,means that nothing that needs to be reserved prepaid occurs before
Day 3 (Tuesday)
It appears to me with seeing the actual survey results and the summary
doesn't seem to mention it, that most people are arriving on
Friday/Saturday/ Sunday (irrespective of when they subsequently leave)
and most start leaving Saturday / Sunday (irrespective of when they
arrived) hence I've noted that as it tends to impact on what can be
organised / scheduled in some cases.
I would personally like to see the schedule better balanced with a big
show and limo tour type of activity on Saturday night with perhaps
significant activities on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday nights.
Despite my previous comments, and in respect of those that found
contacting the group as newbies I think there needs to be two major (no
alternative) meetings in an appropriate location.
For example maybe
- a Monday night activity based at David Stevens (Happy Hour, Meal, Show
all in one place) followed by late night activity somewhere else for
those that want it.
- a Thursday night activity based at ???????????? (Happy Hour, Meal and
Annual get together, photo etc)
Carrying on with some suggestions I saw the EON as being generally
successful and while I was only responsible for one (Bertolini's) it
seems like the other were equally well organised and enjoyed. Perhaps
this could be scheduled for Wednesday (as this year or Friday night)
before a late night show (in which case Wednesday would probably be
better)
Saturday should be a climax type day with perhaps a HH/Dinner before a
show and then late night limo tour and early morning drinking (eg
Charles Bar, etc)
The way to keep people committed to Saturday activities is to make them
prepay earlier in the week, which IMO, is largely why attendance at
Friday and Saturday evenings seemed to drop off as a result of lethargy,
lack of enthusiasm and perhaps disorganisation of those activities.
>Yes, there are always people calling for DLV to be longer. I challenge
>those who oppose the 6-day limit to say to the effect "I'm in favor of a
>7-day DLV and I personally volunteer to coordinate one more nontrivial
>activity than I did in 2005."
I'm happy to do the EON thing again!
A personal note......
A month has already passed since DLV finished and indeed it is now less
than eleven months to the next one (potentially). Both Susan and I are
looking forward to next year although admittedly the return from this
trip has been quite tumultuous.
For those that are not aware, Susan was suffering from a sore back and
and neck for most of DLV, somewhat exacerbated by the rough spot
referred to above in the middle of the desert. The remainder of our trip
which included travelling on to Europe had her experiencing increasing
pain, to the point of her being in a wheel chair at the courtesy of Air
New Zealand all the way home from Europe. To cut a longish story short,
she went straight to the doctor on arrival here, who sent her to
hospital for x-rays and blood test, that latter revealing a very high
white blood cell count. The end result is that Susan was diagnosed with
Chronic Myeloid Leukaemia (CML). While serious it is not terminal in its
current state and she is now responding well to the drugs.
This week she starts taking Gleevic a new drug (2002) that is cost New
Zealand's Pharmac (they supply all the drugs to NZ patients as funded by
the government) about $80K per annum. I now can't say I don't see any
value in the amount of tax I pay!
As I can see the outlook is positive with CML needing to be controlled
as much as anything and of course we live in the situation of hoping
that it does not become Acute.
I know that a number of people both on this list and those on the
DLVDISC have made comment about there interaction with both Susan and
and Kay (Ginger's SO)
Hugs
Michelle
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Thanks, Michelle. :)
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2006 activities:
Mindy writes:
>hey annie
Hey there, hi there, ho there ... :)
>well as usual i will volunteer to take care of the golf (since i
>inherited it a few years ago *lol*), the pity party (since it was my
>idea), and the thrift store shopping (will have better meeting
>arrangements next year).
>diane will take care of the high tea. due to the increased size of
>diva we will be glad to take on co-org people for any of the events.
>as much as i hate to i cannot at this point commit to a garden party..
>still looking at how well it would work at our new living
>arrangements.. dont think it would be a problem as far as the
>community.. just not sure if the physical arrangement would be what the
>garden party was in the past.
As I've said countless times before, I always thought the Garden Party
was one of our most relaxing and enjoyable activities. If it can't
happen again, I'll understand, however.
>if someone local would like to take on the garden party i would be more
>then willing to help them out.
Thanks, Mindy. :)
I'll put you down for Golf with Billie Lee as co-coordinator. I'll put
down Diane (NV) for High Tea with you as co-coordinator.
Do we have volunteers to be co/backup for the Pity Party and to assist
with the Garden Party?
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Volunteering:
Tawni writes:
>Hi. I once again would like to volunteer to help organize an event for
>DLV 2006. I'm thinking of putting together another dance class but I'm
>still figuring out how to make it even more fun. In any event, please
>mark me down as a volunteer for something.
Thanks, Tawni. As you know the Dance Instruction was very highly rated
and I've heard lots of comments on it. Perhaps a repeat, adjusted for
the times, of course, would be in order.
Diane, are you "go" for co-coordinator of the Dance Instruction for
DLV 2006?
Of course if you two don't want to do the DI thing again, there are many
things you can do.
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Dining out:
Ginger writes:
>Here are my comments on Carluccio's, specifically and on dining out in
>general.
>I'm one of those with dietary restrictions because of my cardiac
>history and have faithfully followed a fat and cholesterol restricted
>diet for many years. I just saw my cardiologist for my annual routine
>physical and attribute my continuing good health to it. My diet, which
>I keep fat and cholestrol free so far as reasonably possible, is not
>about preferences, it's about living.
>Most Italian restaurants are reasonably good places to eat occasionally
>as most serve green salads, minestrone soup, and pastas with marinara
>sauce. While these dishes are at best low fat and not suitable for
>constant fare, the fats are low in saturated fats acceptable on an
>occasional basis.
>This was the request I made to the Carluccio's waitress. She didn't
>seem particularly responsive to my request and annoyed that I was not
>ordering from the limited DLV menu. She told me they had no green
>salads, but that she would give me spaghetti with marinara sauce. She
>then proceeded to serve spaghetti smothered in what appeared to be
>alfredo sauce; what those of us who follow my diet refer to as "heart
>attack on a plate." I told her I had requested marinara sauce without
>cheese and that usually white sauces were bad news. She seemed annoyed,
>but agreed to give me marinara sauce. When it came it was apparent it
>was laced with cheese. I decided it was just better to leave than to
>have a confrontation and also go away hungry.
No green salad?????? Hello!!! Give them a one-way ticket to the real
world!! They have green salad. I had a green (side) salad and so did
almost everybody else in the room! If they don't have a Big Salad<tm>
they can surely dump 2 little salads into a big bowl while watching
Seinfeld reruns. :)
Any restaurant open today will be able to deal with people on low-fat,
low-carb, vegetarian, and various other diets.
IMAO, we needed a confrontation. Restaurant managers need to know if
customers are not happy, and if employees are not keeping the customers
happy. I believe that Leah has made this known to their management.
You weren't the only one who wasn't happy at Carluccio's this year. As
you know from the survey report, they slipped very badly in the polls
this year. They dropped from a 4.75 (out of 5) in 2003 and 4.72 in 2004
to 3.75 this year. That is a significant drop, from close to perfect to
so-so.
Although I had a good meal, and those at my table seemed to be happy,
some of the others were not.
. . .
>What were my best dining experiences? At Hamburger Mary's my dining
>companions had a terrible experience, but they got my vegan hamburger
>perfect!
I'm glad somebody enjoyed it. Hamburger Marys is another which took a
major hit in the polls this year. They slipped from 4.52 in 2003 and
4.39 in 2004 down to 3.72 this year. Again, quite a plunge.
>I like the Sahara buffet because their selection of unprocessed fruits
>and salad vegetables is the best in Las Vegas; yes superior to the
>Bellagio, Rio and others in that regard.
IMAO, the Sahara buffet improved this year. I noticed a definite
improvement in their breakfast items. I ate there several times this
year, both by myself and with the LW(o)G group, and I don't remember
any time I didn't find something I enjoyed. It's not the Bellagio by
any means, but quite acceptable for a quick breakfast/lunch.
>At Stephen David's the waitress was very accommodating and I did just
>fine. Obviously I don't expect everyone to follow my diet although they
>would be heart healthier if they did.
I've heard nothing at all negative about Steven David's. I really think
that they are a strong candidate for a large group meal this coming
year.
>We didn't go to the Hard Rock Cafe this year, but even they are
>accommodating. Most reasonable restaurants can accommodate various
>diets and we ought to seek them out.
Yes, I agree that one thing we need to do is to seek out new (to us,
anyway) and different places to eat. We did have a few of them this
year. I know most everybody enjoyed Steven David's (4.63 on the survey)
and I think that's a good candidate for a large group thing next year.
Although I've had good meals at both places, I'm not going to try to
fight it if the group decides to put both HM and Carluccio's on the
skip-list for DLV 2006.
What did you (and everybody) think of Bahama Breeze? May I ask what you
had there, and did you think that their menu had adequate dietetic
items? I enjoyed the food there. I can't remember what exactly it was
that I had, but it sounded good and it was. :)
I do know that there were complaints about the service, specifically the
lack of promptness.
How about Bertolini's? They got a high rating. Ditto for Paco's?
Also, what did everybody think of (the concept, not necessarily the
venues) of Eating Out Night? I think it worked quite well and I think
it's worth repeating. It gave people a choice and it broke the large
group up in to more reasonably-sized smaller groups.
EON will never work well when the exact headcount has to be known in
advance, and this does preclude some venues. People did tend to
gravitate to the "safest" option. Perhaps HM can be used as a "safe"
option for EON in 2006.
Paddy's and Rainbow Lounge might also be "safe" options for EON. Neither
place has a large capacity, but both serve food and are not wide open.
I admit that I have stayed away from Rainbow Lounge due to that scathing
negative report when it just opened. Now that I've been there I feel a
lot more comfortable about it.
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Timeframe:
Mardi writes:
>I second Monday (April 24 to Sat. April 29). I think 6 days of DLV is
>just right.
Thanks, Mardi. :)
Any other timeframe nominations or discussion?
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Sunday will never be the same:
Diane writes:
>Morning Annie,
{looking at screen clock} Yes, in 2 minutes it is. :)
>Although I was not able to attend this year's Church service, I did
>attend last years. I believe that we should leave this as an open
>option if DLV '06 is going to start on a Monday.
The timeframe is still very much an open issue. However, if we are
going to do a 6-day DLV, focusing on quality over quantity, we don't
want to see it "creep" with optional activities.
One way of getting a MCC session in there would be to start on a Tuesday
(we've done this before) and end on the following Sunday (we've ended on
Sunday before).
Comments?
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Timeframe:
Tina writes:
>>I will go as far as to nominate the timeframe of April 23 (or 24 - see
>>below) thru April 29 for DLV 2006.
>>Any other nominations for timeframe? The floor is open.
>Just some feedback. I have always thought that the date picking
>process is too rushed in the afterglow of each years previous DLV,
>before things get thought through properly, which has resulted (IMHO)
>in some bad choices in the past.
I admit that I'm the one who has picked the timetable for setting the
timeframe, and that I've done this with the intention of having a final
selection made by fall so people can plan in advance. IMAO, 8 months
(September - April) is not too early to do this, but I'm not everybody
here.
If you or anybody else thinks that the timetable presented should not be
used, please feel free to enter a motion to change it and we'll see what
the gang here says.
>There are opportunities for some synergy between DLV and other LV
>events. For instance, LV's Gay Pride week was just last week (it's
>usually in May somewhere) and the dates for 2006 don't appear to have
>been set yet. There were a ton of special parties and events at a
>number of the venues DLV frequents. If you ever want to schedule DLV
>in the week adjacent to something else interesting, it's going to take
>some time for those other calendars to shake out also.
Do we want to intentionally make DLV coincide with Pride Week or any
other event?
I say that things like this can be one factor of countless ones that we
can used to make a selection, but it should not be one that trumps any
others.
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Administrivia:
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