From: Annie (annie@geekbabe.com)
Date: Sun Jul 07 2002 - 00:14:29 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
A bit behind
Wet and format
Laura writes
Michelle writes
Calendar and services
New venues
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2003 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
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A bit behind:
For those expecting a personal response to something, I am currently
about a week or so behind in e-mail correspondence, both personal and
DLV related. Nope, I haven't forgotten anybody. :)
However (comma) this mailing contains all list traffic that came in
prior to Saturday morning, so that part is caught up. :)
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Wet and format:
Leah writes:
>I knew about Steph's show but didn't mention it because it was not set
>in stone..... actually it was supposed to open at Sasha's the night
>before and now that looks like it has been changed to WET. I'll keep
>an eye on it but I wish it was starting closer to Diva so we could be
>reasonably sure that it would still be around.
>Steph's a personal friend, not poo-pooing the show, but these shows
>have a way of fizzling out after awhile. I would suggest maybe keeping
>a question mark on the schedule for a bit. I hope it does become a
>staple each week, I have seen her perform before and if anyone can keep
>it alive I think she can.
Yes, please keep an eye on this for us. We know from experience that
both shows and venues open, close, and change all the time.
>I prefer the Tues-Sun format btw........ no reason..... if everyone
>votes for the over the weekend format then I am for that too. Let me
>take this opportunity to say that I am running for city
>councilwoman..... <ggg>
Ok {mark} another for the earlier option. It seems like more appear to
favor the earlier option, but we'll have a call for votes later this
month where we'll take an official count.
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Laura writes:
>I like the model 2 schedule. Those days of the week really work me.
Ok, so noted. Not an official vote count yet. I can see a CFV coming
later this month.
>I agree 100% with Mindy's comment about High Tea being an event for
>those who wish social time (it was one of the highlights of DLV for
>me). I heard heard a number of gals planned to attend but didn't come
>to. I wonder if the fall off was due to the competition of the tourist
>outing to Fire Valley. I had trouble deciding which to attend before
>DLV so we did Fire Valley on the Mon. before DLV.
I think the fallout was due to the same reasons we had fallout on other
activities, people had other immediate priorities. I don't think any
people bailed on the high tea to do VOF.
I was on the VOF excursion and nobody I remember mentioned having to
decide between the two. You are the first person who mentioned having
any issue deciding between them.
Looking back, I thought this was an excellent example of how
two-tracking could work, since there seemed to be very little
contention between the two activities.
IIRC, the high tea was scheduled long after the VOF was. There was a
demand for more dressy daytime activities, and this fit that mold quite
well.
>Really like Mindy's plan to move the event to Bellagio for variety and
>not all seated at one long table.
>A day trip to Primm sounds like fun.
>I do like the idea of more activities mornings that I have seen
>suggested. I'm not a night owl and not a clubs type, though I'm well
>aware that puts me in the minority. I would have welcomed informal
>breakfasts or brunches.
>I have been working on drafts of DLV articles/letters to editor for
>Lady Like and Girl Talk. Following Annie's suggestion of aim for those
>publications that inform/entertain versus those that excite, those are
>the two that would work best for DLV. Hoping to see a few more copies
>of a magazine called Simply Gorgeous out of New York (I've only seen
>one, but it fit the bill) to see if it would also qualify.
>Plan to submit these pieces soon for review by all.
That sounds great. Thanks. :)
>One problem with this is I haven't got a clue how we would get
>approvals from people for photos to be published. Would the big group
>shot from Fri. night at Goodtimes, which would show people they are
>missing something big if they don't come to DLV 2003, require
>everyone's approval? The faces are pretty small.
IANAL, but I did have a course in Communications Law several years back
and I see three factors here regarding what does and does not require
a release. Again, IANAL.
1. Recognizable likeness. In general, if a photograph is not a
recognizable likeness of a person, it does not require a release from
that person to be published. I question whether many of the photos of
DLV are indeed recognizable likenesses, especially the large group ones.
In print, photos can be sized such that they could never really be
recognizable.
2. Newsworthy material. In the States, any photograph considered
newsworthy in most cases does not require a release. I would think that
followup articles about DLV are indeed newsworthy, but again, IANAL.
3. Courtesy, common sense, publisher policies. I think it's common
courtesy that permission be obtained before submitting a photo that is a
clean clear face shot of somebody. On the other hand, if the face is not
clearly presented I don't see an issue.
Some publishers may require releases for everybody shown, purely as a
CYA.
I would suggest that when you have the photos selected that you wish to
use, we take a look at them, try to identify any whose faces are clearly
recognizable, contact them for permission, etc.
I'll be honest, I can only place names to about half of the people in
the various group shots. Some of the people may not be easily
identified.
Another approach may be to post the pics you plan to use in a special
area and send out a special mailing asking people to review them.
>And, given my limited
>tech. skills, I'd need to hook up with someone to help with how to
>submit photos off the net.
I would be willing to help out with this.
>If it's articles we send in, I suspect the publications are going to
>require photos. If it's a letter to ed., then a photo would help but
>not be required for publication. A letter would probably work best for
>Girl Talk anyway, written from the angle: congrats on making Sasha's a
>Club Girl Talk venue, DLV 2002 ladies went there several times not
>long after it opened and enjoyed fine food, great entertainment,
>friendly service, etc. And it was just one of many fun gatherings at
>DLV 2002 and then outline the other activities, briefly. Not sure
>they'd take another type of submission since they don't seem to cover
>the other T-community events unless it's a place they promote for Club
>Girl Talk or it involves one of the advertisers.
I think it's been demonstrated over and over that various niches of the
t* community (such as publications) love to self-promote and seldom
cross-promote. However, when I attended the CGT thing right after DLV,
one of the bigshots from Girl Talk was there and she gave me the
impression that they would welcome submissions regarding DLV with no
strings attached.
>Guidance/more comments on the above would be welcomed.
Speaking from my experience with the various t* publications over the
years, they are usually in great need of good solid content. They seldom
have the budget to pay for content, but they will usually use anything
that's well written and presented, and can be used with a minimum amount
of rewriting, composing, copyfitting, etc.
Of course the usual real-world constraints do apply, such as not
badmouthing their publication or their advertisers, don't even mention
their competitors, etc. :)
Comments, ladies? (Gentlemen?)
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Michelle writes:
>Am I missing something? I don't see the Limo Tour on either the
>activities schedule or the Model examples? Have we decided not to
>"tour" next year?
For those two example schedules I posted last mailing, those were just
random activities plugged in to see what it might look like. Not even
suggestions of a daily schedule.
Limo tour is not on there because nobody has proposed or suggested it
yet. I started with a clean list. I'll consider this a suggestion and
get it on. :)
>And while I'm going on about "missing items":
>SO Lunch?
Not proposed or suggested yet. I'll consider this a suggestion.
>Air Tours? (Was that there?)
Not mentioned either. We did have skydiving on the list for a while,
but Densie pulled it due to the fact she does not want to commit to
something that strenuous next year. Anyway, I'll add this to the list
as a suggestion, pending pilots willingness, etc.
>Anyway....
>Model 1: This works for either before or after N+I, for us that have to
>go to the conference as well as a break at either end! I like this
>model better than 2 for a PRE N+I DLV.
>Model 2: This would probably be better for a POST DLV as most of N+I
>finishes on Thursday at 4:00pm. It doesn't work so well for a pre N+I as
>it conflicts with first few days.
>All in all I like a weekend ending for DLV as this allows the maximum
>number of people to be around at the end. Clearly we had quite a drop
>off this year on Sunday evening, as people left to travel home so a
>Monday or Tuesday end is likely to exacerbate that situation (IMHO).
>OTOH it appears we will have a bigger core of returnees and serious DLV
>attendees as each year goes by so this may not necessarily be the
>biggest issue.
>Dates. From a purely personal perspective the week before is far better
>for me as I can travel to the US over the Easter weekend minimising the
>lost work time. There's also an NZ holiday during this period that
>helps out as well. Cooler weather also make this more attractive.
>It does seem we should work out the PRE, POST DLV date before
>determining the model as proposed.
I think if we are to extend, in both cases it's better to extend one
day after DLV, as opposed to one day before. For those who decide at
the last minute to do a longer DLV, it's a lot easier to just change
plane reservations a day later than it is to hunt down Dr. Brown for
some flux capacitor transit. :)
>Unofficial Lunch:
>Like this idea. At DLV some of us went off to Bellagio for the Buffet
>and in the past I've lunched at that Italian restaurant in the Caesars
>arcade. Some other possibilities include the outdoor café at Paris. I
>think that would be great on a reasonable (not too windy, not too hot)
>day.
>And I think it would be great to have cocktails at some of the casino
>bars. If we are to be out and about then we should do it with class!
True, and we have done this in casino bars most every year. The casino
bar at IP has seen us each year, and the one at Sahara has for the past
three years or so.
>My thoughts for the month!
>Now worth more (2 cents) due to the increasing value of the NZ dollar
>but still provided at the old price!
And if you follow the USD vs. the EUD, your 2 cents may be appreciating
in value. <semi grin>
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Calendar and services:
Anya writes:
>>We want to have our proposed DLV dates ready to present to the general
>>DLV audience by August 1, which is one month away.
[deletia magna]
>I really like this model 1 idea. It allows me to only have to use one,
>not two weeks of vacation time. I found the Tue-Sun worked well last
>time.
That is a very good point, for people whose vacation is measured in
calendar weeks instead of days.
>I would do dinner along with Club Girl Talk at Sasha's. I would do a
>buffet on Tues. I would schedule a dinner at Luxor before going to RA if
>we do Blue Man Group on the same day.
Ok, hold those thoughts. We're not really plugging activities into
timeslots yet, but keep those thoughts in mind for when we do.
>Primm is very good for a mall crawl. I also like the ideas of doing
>something "touristy" especially the art museums. If going to Bellagio
>Gallery of Fine Art, then a Bellagio Buffet lunch would be in order. I
>think we're onto something very good here.
Yes, the art museum and a meal on one side or the other would most
likely work quite well.
>>>One item I never see come up is that of religious worship. While I
[cut-paste]
>>I'm assuming Las Vegas has a Metropolitan Community Church, which is
>There is a Metropolitan Community Church in Las Vegas, on Almond Tree
>Lane behind the northwest corner of Sahara and Maryland Parkway.
>There are several other churches,
Does anybody have any personal first-hand experience with any
congregations in Las Vegas, regarding exactly how t-friendly they are?
I know MCC will always be ok, but some of the others who are generally
regarded as liberal are very autonomous, and can vary, with some
individual congregations being somewhat staid.
On the list on the web, I would like to green-light those which are
positively known to be accepting of t* people.
>temples as well.
I know there are a few Reform congregations in LV, which tend to be
GLBT-friendly. There was a movement to found a Reconstructionist
synagogue a few years back, but I haven't heard anything about it
lately. Hopefully we can have at least one each of PCJ on the list.
>Keep the good ideas coming. After all this is a Vegas Vacation.
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New venues:
Kate writes:
>It seems we have a common interest in some quality socializing time
>without background noise. I think it would be best to add this in
>somewhere mid DLV as it would be nice to get to know a few girls before
>hand so to speak. (Speaking for those of us who don't already know a
>whole lot of the group yet.)
>I wouldn't want to pre-empt a scheduled favourite event to do this as
>the week seems quite full already, but it would be a nice idea I think.
>Maybe we could fit it in early evening before a show or something like
>that. Those with cars helping with the "getting to" thereof.
It looks to me like you're proposing a mid-DLV mixer type of thing.
Yes, I'm hearing a calling for more social time, both in general, and
in the suggestions of both one-time and recurring activities.
>A friend and I once arranged a stag party mid week and simply
>approached the management of a local bar/lounge and asked if we could
>use one of their rooms on a quiet night for the do and they gave us a
>room and even supplied munchies for free, 22 showed up out of the 15
>which were originally going and a few of us became regulars there as we
>had been treated well and found that the place was good on weekends
>too.
>If one of the local girls could research this we may find a friendly
>piano lounge or nearest faximile and have a place to crash for quiet
>times and the previously suggested pre outing get togethers etc'
>As long as we explain the requirements, eg:- washrooms etc' The worst
>they could say is no.
I see a number of possibilities for venues for our strictly social
activities, including:
1. Our old favorites such as Goodtimes, Flex, and Sasha's.
2. Facilities at one of our suggested hotels.
3. Party room type facilities in any of several food and drink
establishments, both those that target the GLBT audience (such as
Hamburger Marys) and those that aim for the general public.
Most places will have some form of music (juke box, etc.), but it will
be such that conversation can indeed take place. One of the complaints
about the LV lounge was that they cranked the music way up when the
dancers did their thing. Notice we did not use them for any DLV
activities in 2002.
But ... I do think we need a mixture of our old favorite venues and
new ones for our social activities for DLV 2003.
>I presume DLV most likely started this way?
DLV started as an in-real-life get-together in 1997 of a few of us who
got to know each other on IRC. You can indeed say that DLV's first
activity was a strictly social gathering at Goodtimes where three of us
met, had a few drinks, and shot the bull. We did return to Goodtimes
later that weekend just before (or was it just after) going to the
Liberace Museum. Another of the first DLV's activities was strictly
social, and was simply an evening at another (now closed) bar on
Charleston. It was after this activity that the infamous 7-11 incident
occurred. :) :) :)
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