Subject: dlvorg Lots of comments and stuff ...
From: Annie (annie )
Date: Wed Sep 22 1999 - 20:01:43 CST
In this mailing:
Notes on this mailing:
Local unease:
Punny:
Passing vs Glam Dressing:
Real-world dressing:
Passing thoughts:
Sunglasses at night:
More Las Vegas trip notes:
Activities, events, and schedule items:
Administrivia:
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Notes on this mailing:
Once again, volume of mail has been such that I'm sending this out early.
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Local unease:
>Should have dropped a note a long time ago..but.... I would like to
>make a comment for the "local Girls" since I am one of them. In regard
>to the following comment:
>>One thing surprised me, and still amazes me, and that is that the local
>>ladies appear to be far more uneasy in regards to going out on the town
>>than they do in any other place I can think of. This leads me to
>>believe there is a perception that the local residents, on a whole, are
>>viewed by the local t* community as not being particularly accepting.
>It is not that the view is not accepting but since many of the girls do
>work and socialize in the area the chance of running into a co-worker
>or boss or neighbor, all of whom may not be privy to "the other side"
>is an ongoing possibility, these girls would rather avoid the situation
>as much as any girl would in her hometown, remember these girls come
>from all "walks" of life..and Las Vegas is hometown, and working and
>business place for the local girls.
Well, I hear ya, but imao, this seems to be far more common in Las
Vegas than other places I've seen. There just seems to be more
uneasiness than I've seen elsewhere.
I've noticed this all three years of DLV. Local people have told me
over and over that they were uneasy appearing en femme on the Strip,
joining us for the FI shows at the Riviera and Plaza, and even uneasy
driving to places like Keys and Goodtimes.
>For the most part the areas of town
>that get the most socializing are the gay areas because we are less
>likely to run into a co-worker or neighbor.
Do keep in mind that at the "alternative" venues, they will most likely
be more afraid of you noticing them ...
The general feeling and attitude, around here, anyway, is that you will
seldom be recognized in girlmode, and if you are, those who recognize
you will either be those who know both sides of you, or those who don't
care.
>I hope that this helps clear up the acceptence fear.
I don't think fear is what I meant, just an uneasiness of some of the
local people that seemed a bit more than I would expect.
Speaking from the perspective of a non-local regular visitor, I would
say that the general public is quite accepting. I have yet to hear any
stories of any hassle from our people.
>Other than that I am looking forward to May and DLV2K.
Me too. :)
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Punny:
>>(All in all
>>you're just another chick in the mall. :)
>Annie that's AWFUL! You should be arrested and locked up for that! :^)
Uh, actually, I don't claim that as original. :)
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Passing vs Glam Dressing:
>>Sometimes you just want to go all-glam, and to heck if somebody reads
>>you and to heck if somebody cares.
>I've missed most of this discussion thread, but I just wanted to second
>the emotion about glam dressing. It's my main reason for
>cross-dressing. If I ever stop enjoying it, I expect that I'll stop
>doing it.
And, there's no reason you should stop (doing or enjoying. :)
>Face it. Most CDs don't pass in the true undetected sense. But, with
>effort and a good attitude, all CDs can be feminine and gracious.
>These feminine and gracious girls should be highly admired.
>At the same time, just as I want to be left alone to enjoy my glam
>side, I want to support the girls who focus only on passing. I think
>that there is room at DLV for all of us. I certainly felt this way at
>DLV 99.
As we've noted, we are a diverse group, but things like DLV give us the
chance to come together, get to know each other, and share our
thoughts.
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Real-world dressing:
>I totally agree with your dress like a real gg comments. My s/o made
>sure as I progressed in my journey that I bought real gg clothes and
>not just all fun things.
As I read this and the past several items, it's obvious that many of us
simply want to dress to blend in, while some have not as much desire to
do so. Again, this reinforces the diversity we see in our community.
For some, dressing is an end, but for others, it is one of many means
to express personality.
And yes, I agree that there is "room" at DLV for those at all points on
this multidimensional spectrum.
>This turned into a real blessing as she has gone to the mall shopping
>with me as cindy.
And you are very fortunate to have her. :)
>I read your info each week we may make it next year after all , so i'm
>trying to on top of what your planning.
Great. Looking forward to having you with us.
>Do you have any info on Colorado Gold? Thanks
They tell me (the ubiquitous "they") that Colorado Gold Rush will be
moving from its regular Autumn date (where it was one of many in that
season) to March, the next one being March of 2000, when the calendar
is not as saturated.
However, if you're looking for something sooner ... :)
#shamelessplug
If you want an activity in the fall, I would suggest Fall Harvest. This
is in Milwaukee this year. Info on this year's event appears at:
http://www.netwurx.net/~fallharv99/
Pictures of the past few FH's appear at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/
#endshamelessplug
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Passing thoughts:
>>>Suddenly I discovered I felt MUCH less self-conscious. I had no idea
>>>if the people I was passing in the parking lot were looking at me or
>>>not, or what their facial expressions were. I don't necessarily
>>>recommend this method for all occasions -- it *is* nice to see once in
>>>a while -- but on occasion it's worked for me. :)
>Back the first few times I went out I honestly didn't know if I was
>passing or not, although I'm sure I wasn't. I'm sure the whole world
>was just staring at me. I would watch peoples eyes as we passed and
>I would swear that most of them gave me a sideways-glance. As I got
>more confident, I swear they didn't give me that sideways-glance as
>much, and then not at all. I really don't think I changed anything
>about the way I dress or acted. At first, this was almost un-nerving
>enough to make me quit going out, and I would of giben anything to
>not know.
This feedback, as uneasy as it may have seemed, was most likely what
helped you to grow, and yes, pass. You say that nothing has changed,
but I'm sure your attitude, gait, facial expressions, etc. all changed
as your attitude and style grew (and continues to grow).
An excellent exercise to do, which was done at times at both DLV98 and
DLV99, is to have an observer follow you at about 20 paces or so as you
wander around (malls, casinos, sidewalks) and carefully note any
stares, double-takes and the like.
On a like note, if there is ever a need to get a whole bunch of t*
people from point a to point b without being read (individuals pass far
more easily than groups), walk single file, keeping about a 20 pace
distance from each other. This helps to assure that observers'
attention spans will be broken, bringing the probability of being read
down to that of individuals.
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Sunglasses at night:
>>Back several
>>years ago I got a pair of nouveau-retro cat-eye sunglasses, and they
>>have kind of been a trademark of mine ever since.
>Yes, those are very becoming to you,
Uh, thanks {blush}. :)
> but no offense, don't you think wearing them in the dead of night
>when you walk from the bar to your van is a bit much? (only kidding)
Uh, <lol> did I really do that? I don't consciously remember that.
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More Las Vegas trip notes:
>I still read your informative emails and continue to be astounded by
>the fear that seems to surround so many T's! I know it is real.
>Re: Las Vegas and the Bible Belt. My T partner and I have made 5
>trips to Las Vegas, 4 of which she was crossdressed the entire time.
>We never, ever had one bit of trouble from anyone, anywhere. We have
>stayed at the Riviera, the Imperial and at the Golden Nugget.
>Everyone, from locals and police, to dealers and other personnel at the
>casinos and hotels, to tourists of all nationalities, have been
>friendly and certainly interested.
This is what everybody reports, including those from three years of
DLV. Staff at IP and Riv are great. No trouble at all.
>Yes, Vanessa gets a whole bunch of amazed looks - but that's part of
>this. If you can't swim, don't go in the water, as she says. No one
>has bothered her in any manner. We never go to the Gay places, we stay
>strictly in the casinos, both on the Strip and downtown. We have hit
>all of them with Vanessa en femme. We did the Caesar's Palace magic
>dinner theatre one year, we went to the Sarhara and saw Jeff Dunham, we
>went to the Lance Burton Magic Theatre at the Monte Carlo, we ate
>buffet at Treasure Island, we gambled for 4 hours at the Luxor, we
>visited the Rain Garden and gambled and ate buffet at the Mirage, we
>wandered through the MGM and Excalibur and New York, New York. Vanessa
>regularly gambles (en femme) at Binion's Horseshoe, downtown, and she
>has gambled and we have eaten buffet at Fitzgeralds.
>Vanessa went to a magic show on our last trip at the Lady Luck (a
>casino we would not recommend at all) and had no problems whatsoever at
>the show.
I've been to the Lady Luck several times, and enjoyed it. Yeah, it
ain't the Bellagio, but the casino and food were always good. It's off
the beaten path, I admit.
>I will say that the accompanying T who was with us apparently felt that
>some of the young men at our table were obnoxious and she more or less
>picked a fight of words with them, but they never said anything to
>Vanessa or me and I think our friend was simply defensive and
>overreacted.
Key here is to be a lady. Should some immature jerk make a comment that
is not flattering, ignore it. 'nuff said!
>Las Vegas may have a conservative, Mormon population, but you are right
>on when you say that as for the hotels and casinos and other such
>attractions, you are a person, you are spending money, creating no
>trouble, having fun and you are welcome.
>BTW, we have also made 4 trips to the casinos south of Memphis, in
>Tunica, MS. You can't get more Bible Belt than that! Absolutely no
>problem at all, and in truth, the Afro-American staff persons in the
>casinos there go out of their way to make you feel welcome. In the
>Grand Casino in Tunica one day, Vanessa was playing slots when an East
>Indian lady sat down next to her and initiated conversation. She and
>her husband were from India, on holiday. She had never met a T before
>and was fascinated. They talked a long time, and the lady eventually
>introduced her husband to Vanessa. Another visit there, in Sam's Town,
>an elderly widow, on a bus tour from Indiana, approached Vanessa, sat
>down and spent the next 3 hours talking while she played the slots.
>She had to be at least 80. She then went and got her even old
>"boyfriend" and brought him back to meet Vanessa and me. She was a
>riot, thought Vanessa was terrific and admired Vanessa's decision to be
>herself and not worry about it.
That's a good report. Thanks. :)
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Activities, events, and schedule items:
1. Group dinner (theme night?)
2. Hospitality/meeting room.
3. Thrift shop tour.
4. Legacy LV show (Splash, Follies).
5. Behind-the-scenes Follies tour.
6. Concert at Hard Rock.
7. Trip to Rhyolite.
8. Rocky Horror Picture Show.
9. Makeovers, etc.
Anything missing here? Incorrect? If so, send it in.
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Administrivia:
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Diva Las Vegas 2000
Tentative dates: Thursday, May 11 thru Tuesday, May 16, 2000
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*hugs*
annie :)
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