In this mailing:
Org List
Good start
Admin Committee seat
Concerns from the survey
Large gatherings
Date comments
Various comments
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2018 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg_at_divalas.vegas)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
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Good start:
Thanks to all for the comments and feedback! Please keep those cards and
letters coming. :)
. . . . .
Time-sensitive items:
Please note the following which are moving along rapidly ...
1. Admin Committee. Please read the below item and if you object, say so
within this list cycle.
2. Dates. Please read the below item and if you wish to see any of the
three discussed weeks added to the list to be voted upon, please
nominate one or more of them within the current list cycle.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Admin Committee seat:
We have a seconded nomination, a re-nomination for the grandfathered
team of Bobbie and Sara to continue their tenure on the Committee.
Last week we gave a final call for other nominations to be in within
the next list cycle and no further nominations were received.
Since we have only one seconded nomination for this position, if there
are any objections to declaring this by acclimation, please object
within the current list cycle.
Thanks.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Concerns from the survey:
Annie writes:
I'm breaking out the following items from a longer survey response thing
below and putting them up top because I think they are of significant
importance and concern to us, and I don't want to see them "buried" in a
longer item.
I'm holding the balance of the survey comment comments until next week
to keep this mailing down to a decent size and to emphasize these items.
. . . . .
Despite our exceptional scores on the enjoyment scale of the survey,
there are comments both on the survey and those I received in person
during the event that concern me greatly.
Specifically, this is the first time I remember any comments made to me
in person to the effect of "I (probably) will not be back", and a few of
the written comments to this effect concern me as well.
I am also taking the opportunity this week to reach out to a few of our
people personally, those who I believe may be at risk of not returning,
and trying to garner some first-person thoughts and feelings. More on
this in coming weeks.
Anyway, I would like to make everyone aware of these issues, and open
the floor for discussion.
. . . . .
Here are the specific three comments I'm referring to in particular:
+I really enjoy coming to Vegas, where I can express myself and not
+worry about anyone recognizing me
+I have been to Vegas around 8-10 times, and enjoy doing all the
+tourist things there are to do,
+It is starting to get old though as I have seen most of the shows,
+Diva Las Vegas was just an incentive to come, but now that to is
+getting a little stale.
+This time of year things get a little busy for me here at home, so
+while I will probably find time to visit Vegas again, it might not
+be when Diva Las Vegas is going on. I think of Diva Las Vegas as
+a kind of support system, and I do not feel I need that support any
+longer, as I am quite comfortable being out and about on my own.
. . . . .
+My first attempt at participating in Dlv was unfortunately mostly
+disappointing. Perhaps it was my fault as I could only arrive on Wed?
+I tried attending happy hour my first night and arrived early. I sat
+at the bar with the only other tg there, another first time attendee
+whom unfortunately wasn't feeling well and had to leave. I sat at the
+bar by myself the rest of the time.
+Overall, basedcon my admittedly brief experiences, us that dlv is a
+bit clicky and not all that welcoming to newcomers to the group.
+Hopefully, my experience was an aberration because I think it's
+awesome that the volunteers put in so much work to plan a tg event.
. . . . .
+I am not really interested in the daytime activities. I like to go to
+clubs and bars. But, the selection is limited, Paris, and no other
+choices. I wish there was more clubbing. I am doubtful if I will come
+next year.
. . . . . . . . . .
The first of the comments above reflects the "same old same old" remark
that we've heard since, well, since our second event. :) :) Please note
that the "same old same old" appears to refer to Las Vegas in general as
well as DLV in particular, so it's not all aimed at us.
Seriously, although it does reflect the need for us to keep things
fresh, I'm also reading into it that this individual may not have as
much of a need for the organized experience as she did back when she
started attending.
The second item is, unfortunately, recurring.
I'm tempted to do a knee-jerk reminder to all, to once again ask to
watch out for the poor newbee standing alone and please take a time out
from kibitzing with the BFFs for a few seconds to welcome her into the
fold, but I think there's more than that to be addressed.
One very sore spot was revealed in the survey re-run below and I've
commented on it specifically.
The third comment is very specific, and indicates a desire for more
nightlife.
This year we didn't have any true nightclubbing because, well, because
we didn't have any clubbing on the schedule. :) Nobody planned any.
We have quite a few people who skip the daytime activities. Just compare
the turnouts of daytime and evening things and it's obvious! :)
All three of these individuals are clearly at risk of not returning.
. . . . .
This next part is long but please bear with me ...
Everyone who's been involved in business knows that it takes far less
effort and $$$ to keep an existing client/customer than it takes to find
a new client or customer. I would extend this to say that it's to our
advantage to try to keep our prior attendees just as actively as we seek
to bring on new attendees.
To maybe get a better handle on what may or may not be going on with
those who appear to be "at risk" of dropping out, I re-ran the 2017
survey with a subset of the response that met one or more of the
following criteria:
1. An answer of occasionally or lower to the question "Did you find
yourself missing DLV activities because you were in any way
uncomfortable, unsure, or uneasy about attending?"
2. An answer of skip DLV or skip both on the question "Which of the
following best represents your thoughts should the proposed major TG
event in Los Angeles come to fruition and occur within a few weeks of
DLV 2018?"
4. Neutral or below on "Did you find the other DLV attendees to be
friendly and inclusive?
5. "Frequently Uncomfortable" on the question "In general, were you
comfortable being seen with the DLV group in general public settings?"
6. ".. it discouraged me from fully participating" on the question
"During your stay in Las Vegas to attend our event, were you ever
confronted or harassed by a member of the general public regarding your
manner of dress and presentation?"
7. Failed on the question "All in all, did DLV $YEAR meet your
expectations?"
8. Maybe or below on "Would you attend another DLV?"
It should be noted that all of the comments cited above appeared in the
comments on the responses by those meeting these criteria. Most of the
responses included met two or more of the above criteria.
In all, we ended up with a sample set of 19 on the re-run. Although it's
far smaller than our complete set, it should be large enough to garner
some very meaningful information.
I'm not including the results for all questions here. If anyone wants
the complete re-run, write in and it's yours. :)
. . . . . . . . . .
Results from the "at risk" subset only:
+How many times have you attended Diva Las Vegas?
+Once: 4
+Twice: 2
+Three or more: 4
+Five or more: 5
+Ten or more: 1
Most of this is in proportion to the responses on the survey in general,
except for a drop-off here in the ten or more category. It's a mix of
newbees, returnees, and regulars.
. . . . .
+About how far did you travel to attend DLV 2017?
+Average miles: 3221.87
This is significantly higher than the average on the original report,
which is 1803 for the current year.
I sure don't know the significance, if any, of this. :)
More miles means more expense and more effort, so maybe those who travel
further have higher expectations?
. . . . .
+Average length of stay: 5.6 days.
Very close to that for the complete survey, but very slightly higher. I
might conclude that there's no real difference between the at-risk
subset and the gang in general.
. . . . .
+Approximate average age: 62.81
Somewhat higher than our average for the complete survey. It's the older
attendees who appear to be more at risk of dropping out. This is
somewhat unexpected and surprising!
. . . . .
+Have you ever attended any of the following transgender community
+events?
+Southern Comfort Conference 5
+Fantasia Fair 4
+Wildside Vegas 2
As expected, SCC and FanFair led the pack here and all of the less
attended events placed more or less in proportion. Only semi-surprise
was that Wildside was somewhat LOWER in proportion to where it stood on
the complete survey. It appears that the Wildside crossovers are
somewhat less at risk.
. . . . .
This next one raised a red flag with me!
+Did you find our web site to accurately depict what you experienced at
+DLV?
+Yes, definitely.: 11
+Yeah, kinda.: 5
+No.: 0
+I have not viewed the DLV web site.: 0
The "Yeah, kinda" response was approximately double for the at-risk
population than it was for the attendee base as a whole.
One project I want to launch is a good go-over of the content of the web
site to be sure that what we present is indeed accurate. I'll most
likely ask the Proofread Team to assist with this, but if anyone else
wants to be involved, please say so.
. . . . .
+What was your level of enjoyment at each of the following activities?
I'm only including those activities which appeared to be out of
proportion to the answers on the complete survey, and those I think may
have some significance here.
+Gold Spike Happy Hour and Dinner, Sunday, March 26: 2.0 (2 responses)
+Fremont Street Experience, Sunday, March 26: 3.0 (3 responses)
+Gold Spike gaming, Gold Spike, Sunday, March 26: 2.0 (2 responses)
The one thing these three above have in common is that they were on our
first evening, they were somewhat inconvenient to where most were
staying, and they were very "exposed" to the general public. More on
this below.
+Welcome HH, Dinner, Social, Bahama Breeze, Monday: 4.61 (13 responses)
+Farewell Happy Hour, Dinner, Social, OTS, Thursday: 4.22 (9 responses)
The major gatherings were both somewhat (but not really that much) lower
than for the complete survey and proportional between the two. I might
conclude that the major gatherings are not really an issue here.
Here's one surprise.
+Late Night Dancing, Paris - Le Cabaret, Monday: 3.75 (4 responses)
+Late Night Dancing, Paris - Le Cabaret, Tuesday: 3.66 (3 responses)
+Late Night Dancing, Paris - Le Cabaret, Wednesday: 4.0 (1 responses)
+Late Night Dancing, Paris - Le Cabaret, Thursday: 4.50 (2 responses)
+Late Night Dancing, Paris - Le Cabaret, Friday: 5.0 (1 responses)
Late Night Dancing most definitely increased in enjoyment as the week
progressed among those at risk.
The declining numbers of responses, however, indicate to me that several
of those at risk attended once or twice and skipped the rest. Again,
more below.
. . . . .
+Trevi Happy Hour and Dinner, Trevi, Wednesday: 3.57 (7 responses)
+Limousine Tour, Caesars Palace, Wednesday, March 29: 4.50 (4 responses)
For some reason the at risk folks were less likely to enjoy Trevi but
more likely to enjoy the Limo Tour. Both are lower than on the complete
survey, but Trevi was significantly lower for some reason.
. . . . .
Margaritaville Happy Hour and Dinner, Flamingo, Friday: 1.0 (1 responses)
Giordanos Happy Hour and Dinner, Bally's, Friday: 2.50 (2 responses)
These were both cited in the comments as missed connections.
I'm responsible for the Giordano's one. I should have done more of a
"site survey" prior to Friday, and should have noted the EXACT location
to meet the group. I was unaware that there were two bar/dining
locations, one on the mall area and the other upstairs overlooking the
mall. :( My bad! :(
. . . . .
+Which of the following best represents your thoughts should the
+proposed major TG event in Los Angeles come to fruition and occur
+within a few weeks of DLV 2018?
+Most likely skip DLV and attend the new event.: 5
+Most likely attend DLV and skip the new event.: 7
+Most likely attend both.: 1
+Most likely skip both.: 2
Even though this was used as one of the criteria to identify at-risk
attendees, the majority of those in the at-risk category did state that
they would most likely attend DLV as opposed to the El Lay thing.
. . . . .
Here's one which I do believe is significant.
+Did you participate in our Big Sister program and if so, did you find
+it to be helpful?
+I was a volunteer Big Sister and my Little Sister was a no-show.: 1
+I did not participate in the Big Sister program.: 15
None of the first time attendees in this at-risk subset participated in
the Big Sister Program!
. . . . .
Which best indicates what DLV is to you?
An opportunity to dress.: 6
An opportunity to socialize.: 5
An opportunity to party.: 0
An opportunity to express myself.: 3
An opportunity to learn.: 0
An opportunity to meet others in the TG community.: 2
38% of the respondees in the at-risk subset stated that they consider
DLV to be mainly an opportunity to dress, compared to 21% of the
respondees as a whole.
Only 12% of the at-risk respondees selected the "meet other TGs",
compared to 31% of the repondees in the complete survey.
. . . . .
Here's one that I think may be statistically significant, but there's a
"rest of the story" here, as seen above.
+How important is it that there be a significant number of other
+attendees of the same general age range?
+Very important to me.: 3
+Moderately important to me.: 5
+Important, but there are other factors.: 4
+Little or no importance.: 4
18% of the at-risk respondees stated that having others of the same age
was very important, and 50% stated that it was moderately important or
higher.
This compares to 7% of the attendee base as a whole for very important
and 30% for moderately important or higher.
There's a lot of noise in the lower sample size, but I might infer that
there is somewhat of a correlation between the desire for homogamy of
age and the risk of dropping out.
. . . . . . . . . .
Some bottom lines and take-aways, further comments appreciated!
We're reminded to keep things fresh. I might also add that we should
continue to seek new and different activities, both in the daytime and
in the evening, and strive to include things that are not typical
"Vegas-y" things to do.
Opportunities are endless here! :)
. . . . .
We've confirmed that many of our people are driven to attend our event
to meet others in the TG community.
If those who come to meet "others in the TG community" feel that they
are being snubbed by those they are coming to meet, they ain't coming
back! QED!
Yes, I know it's a two-way street here, but I think we can maybe do some
slight tweaks to help with some active assimilation.
Two specific circumstances were brought to light here, the first evening
on Fremont and the late night dancing.
Assuming we do a Fremont Street thing on the first evening again (and I
see no reason not to do it), designating one specific place, such as the
bar at Denny's, as a "DLV Welcome Center", particularly for newbees, may
be very appropriate.
Also, keeping that "Welcome Center" open later, as in after most of the
people scatter to the winds, would maintain an ongoing presence and a
known base to make contact with the group.
For the first night of Dancing At Paris, actually for all nights, keep
an active eye out for any of our people who are just lurking around,
maybe deciding whether or not to take the plunge of joining the group in
the (usually quite loud) seating area. Greet them personally outside of
the high-volume area, help them find seats, introduce them "Susie, this
is Jess" WHAT? "SUSIE THIS IS JESS!" :) :)
. . . . .
More encouragement to participate in the Big Sister program! We might
wanna even consider promoting Big Sisters for those who are first-time
returnees or long-ago returnees as well.
. . . . .
Clubbing? Yes clubbing. Our one club-fan was not with us this year, but
anyone can sponsor a club trip.
Another fairly simple one along this line would be something like the
Audrey Tour.
Comments on any of this?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Large gatherings:
Sandy writes:
I'd be glad to help our with the final group gather as well.
I love the idea of a BB outside group Photo.
. . . . . . . . . .
Thanks Sandy.
Cami please take note here.
As the time approaches, let's discuss the logistics of getting everyone
out and posed, particularly the timing of doing it.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Date comments:
Sandy writes:
March 18th - 23rd is ok with me, but am also open to other date I'll you
all drive that!
. . . . . . . . . .
Sarah (with the "h") writes:
We have experienced perfect days and balmy nights as well as weather
that has ranged from hair dislodging wind to brutal heat or drenching,
shoe destroying rain over the years.
Regardless of how we set our schedule weather can't be my primary
concern.
It is finances that seem to be the major factor in whether or not people
attend, so avoiding other activities that may draw away from our
attendance, scheduling away from the big conventions and other high
visitation dates that raise room and travel costs seems to be firm
ground for setting our calendar.
Rather than express a preference for one set of dates over another I'll
just say I have no real problems with any of the time frames presented
so long as we maintain a reasonable shot at affordability for those on
the financial bubble.
When it comes to a vote I'll pick a favorite. But none of the dates
proposed will, by themselves, eliminate me from participating.
. . . . . . . . . .
Katie writes:
>+An opportunity to meet others in the TG community.: 22
>+This was one of the surprises on the survey.
In response to the survey results.
(1) showing 22 who attended looking for an opportunity to meet other T
women.
then adding in
(2) The discussion about The crossover dates with the Wildside group.
then
(3) add in a third factor of some of us (Not me) wanting to attract
younger people to the mix there are 3 reasons why this might work.
Let's suppose that DLV is scheduled on the same week as Wildside are
going to be in Vegas, or that there is some sort of overlap between the
events then we might want to think about a Single night for a crossover
with them.?
[Just a thought I had last year but was afraid to mention it >*lol* Not
really*. I don't want to rock any boats or make any enemies here] but
if our failing Erotic night on Wednesday evening is imploding we could
either include them in our Erotic night or join them in one of their
similarly inclined activities.
The younger crowd @ WS would more likely be into that than the older
ladies likely are and I don't want to risk losing attendees but
evolution is evolution and we might find out we have more in common with
what they do than we thought was there.
I know that some of our regulars attend WS so they may want to be the go
between on this? Or Not.
Probably a dumb idea and it will hinge on the selected dates anyway but
socializing is why we do this and both groups Do have a common bond. We
all wear womens clothes. **Wink**
. . . . . . . . . .
Annie responds:
Thanks ladies.
Let's discuss the Wildside timing ...
First, going back into history, IIAC we overlapped with Wildside twice
in the last 10 years, in 2008 and 2009. In 2008 there was an incident
and one (or more?) Wildside attendee was asked to leave one of our
activities. In 2009 we had a fairly enjoyable joint activity with some
of the Wildside people at the Charles Bar.
A sometimes-occurring comment in feedback is that we should somehow make
the events (DLV and Wildside) occur concurrently or sequentially.
Also, IIAC, Wildside is now fixed on the calendar on the week after
Mothers Day. If I'm incorrect on this (class?? Bueller??) please correct
me.
This means that if we're to do this we'll need to have our event during
the week of May 13-19 (if concurrently) or May 6-12 or May 20-26 (if
sequentially).
Both of the weeks of May 6-12 and May 13-19 have issues due to our
Standing Rules. The rule in question forbids us from planning anything
on Mothers Day and the two days, Friday and Saturday, immediately before
Mothers day. This means that May 11, 12, and 13 are off limits to us.
If we were to plan for the week prior to Wildside, we would have a three
day gap due to the black-out period, and it would require us to start on
Saturday and end on a Thursday for a six-day event.
If we were to plan to run concurrently, we would need to start on the
Monday after Mothers Day and end on the following Saturday, a span of
weekdays that we've found to not work so well by trial and error.
The only week that coincides, somewhat, with Wildside and allows us to
keep our preferred Sunday through Friday is the week of May 20-26, and I
know if we seriously proposed that one we would get a chorus of "Oh
Noooo! It's toooooooo hot!" in response. :)
Anyway, we currently have the following weeks, from last week's mailing,
under consideration for our 2018 event:
1. Week of March 18-23
2. Week of April 15-20
3. Week of April 22-27
4. Week of April 29 - May 4
If anyone cares to nominate (or second) any of the additional weeks
discussed above, for better or for worse, meaning we would need to obey
or work around our Standing Rules, as additional weeks to be voted upon,
please do so within the next list cycle. If you wish to do so, please be
very explicit, as in "I nominate the week beginning ..." so there's no
confusion.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Various comments:
AJ writes:
> I think most of us agree that name tags are a necessary evil, that
> they do help quite a bit with name recognition and group
> belongingness, (if that is indeed a word). :)
I agree in principle.
> Most of us have also noticed that many slack off on wearing name tags
> as the event continues on its course.
True and I understand, I never wear mine.
> We also know that name tags are one of our most labor-intensive items
> and one of our most significant (in terms of real $$$$) expenses.
I don't really like seeing people have to spend a lot of their own money
to keep something going. It's not really my style.
> I think that most of us also agree that Vera and Dennis have done an
> absolutely fabulous job in producing the name tags over the past few
> years!
Agreed.
> First of all, we'll standardize on the method that Dennis used this
> year for the design of the tags. That is doing an image of both the
> obverse (DLV logo and name) and reverse (QR code and ID number)
> side by side using most of the width of a standard letter-size
> sheet. The tag is then to be cut out, folded over, and inserted
> into a standard tag holder.
Good.
> The only way we're gonna find out on this one is to try it.
It's worth a try, I don't necessarily see myself doing it as I do not
have a printer, but I can access a printer pretty cheaply.
> For DLV 2018 I would like to add a question "Do you wish to print
> out your name tag yourself or do you want a pre-printed tag to be
> given to you at check-in?" to the activity sign-up screen.
I would choose the print my own option, no need to print for me
especially when I'm not sure what I might do. I can own this issue for
myself.
> It's taken a few years, but our people seem to now be in the habit
> of printing out (or at least bookmarking on the web) the daily
> schedule and the maps and such. Let's see if they will do the same
> with name tags!
I hope so, especially for people with easy access to printers, I think
it's a no brainer.
> This was also the first year when we did check-in electronically,
I like the electronic check in, I used it. Perhaps a way of scanning a
pre made QR code on an attendee's phone or piece of paper instead of
manual entry of the information would help. A method of offline
operation should be explored as sometimes internet connections are
spotty in these large buildings.
> The one suggestion we had is to send out regular (at least daily)
> updates to the group text, to verify connectivity and to remind people
> that the system is live.
I've not used the group text at all, lets have more clarification on how
this works and what's it's used for. Is there a way to keep phone
numbers protected.
> I really think that for a six-day event, the Sunday to Friday format
> works best. Sunday has always been a slower-start day, and this year
> Friday was kind of a wind-down day with no major gatherings.
Agreed, I'd rather not fight crowds on Saturday nights.
> I really think that two major gatherings, the first on Monday evening
> and the second on Thursday evening, work out best.
I agree, hopefully we don't have another freak windstorm that knocked
out power.
> In particular, I would like to hear comments from those of you who are
> otherwise very active with our program who seldom do the daily Lunch
> With, as to why, specifically, you do not, and what, if anything, would
> make you more likely to participate.
I enjoy doing the lunches, and I've liked some new venues, the Harrah's
Fulton Street Food Hall was a winner for me.
I think the buffet format we used to do has gotten kind of old, I'm sure
in part because of the higher prices. You can get an inexpensive buffet
lunch at many of the locals properties but then you have the convenience
and travel issue. I enjoy a good $7.99 lunch at Palace Station using my
Boarding Pass card (which anyone 21 or over can get). But the savings
are negated with transportation even with the $8 all access 24 hour bus
from RTC. Seating is a challenge in sit down venues when you have a
crowd and then the question of separate checks comes up. So for me I
think the best way is to use places such as food halls where there is a
choice of cuisines and generally easier seating situations.
> First major gathering (Bahama Breeze):
> Ain't broke! Don't fix it! Enough said.
Lets do it again.
> Group photo:
> Does anyone have any (actually workable) ideas on how we could
> better do this?
I don't know, I've done DLV fifteen times and I don't remember the last
time I did a group photo. In all honesty is just not my thing.
> Late Night Dancing:
> Clear winner for 2017!
I've never done late night dancing, not my thing, but the format at
Paris looks as good as one can get.
. . . . . . . . . .
Annie responds:
Thanks AJ.
A couple of notes on a few of your talking points here:
The phone number of the person sending to the group text is sent out so
that replies can be made directly, as opposed to having a long
back-and-forth sent out to the entire group. I don't really think there
is any way around that. Most people who text regularly don't appear to
be shy about having their numbers known.
I'm unaware of anyone ever having any unwanted traffic as a result of
using their phone, for any purpose, with DLV.
Buffets - You are correct that when we used to get the larger LWG crowds
it was when we used reasonably-priced buffets. However, this year the
non-buffet Lunch With locations had far more hits on the survey.
I think there are several factors in play here. One is that I think our
crowd has changed over the years. Some just don't do the daytime things
and of those who do, they tend to be off doing activities other than
lunch. :) The low-attendance lunches do appear to be opposite other
activities, some of them being quite popular.
Some don't want to get ready that early, and of those, many are a bit
shy of showing up in boymode.
I don't know the answer, really. Class? :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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