From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Fri Aug 07 2009 - 15:34:30 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Strategic planning
Administrative Committee nominations
Activity discussion
About Rocky Horror
So activities and concerns
General suggestions
Administrivia
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Org List:
This is the DLV 2010 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Strategic planning:
Now that our dates are tentatively set, I would like to
make a slight adjustment in the way we've planned the
event over the past several years.
Instead of going gung-ho ramming forward plugging the
activities into timeslots, I would like to take at least
a few weeks to think of and discuss the overall strategy
of the event. Things like what we can do (in general terms)
to increase overall enjoyment and overall participation.
I think we need to leverage the things that work well,
fix or ash-can the things that do not, and continue the
trend toward innovations and new twists on old favorites.
We still have some summarizing and follow-up left. There
are two final survey items, one which appears below,
which need our once-over.
In particular, I would like to hear more from our newer
volunteers. Please don't be shy! :)
. . . . .
There are still some reports of sporadic bounces when
sending to some geekbabe.com e-mail addresses. We think
we may finally have a handle on this, but if anyone
gets a message to geekbabe.com returned as undeliverable,
please send in a copy of the bounce message with all
of the "gobbledegook" intact.
For the hardcore technogeeks among us, geekbabe.com was,
until Wednesday, served by three DNS servers, two within
one "Autonomous System" and one within another. We have
observed some "flaps" within the AS hosting the two
servers, and if some MTA (mail tranfer agent) only checks
two DNS machines and does not iterate to the third, it may
think there's a hard failure during the time of the flap.
We've removed the third DNS with one remaining in each of
two AS's. Time will tell.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrative Committee nominations:
The nomination of Kimberly Kael for the "odd year" at-large
seat on the Administrative Committee has been seconded and
no further nominations have been received, leaving the seat
uncontested.
I would like to now declare Kimberly Kael the holder of that
seat by acclamation.
If there are any objections to such an acclamation, please
send them in ASAP, within the next list cycle. Thanks.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Activity discussion:
Kimberly Kael writes:
>>It's a shame that Edy & Mardi had no control over the high
>>temps that were predicted for the golf tournament.
>Given that they stepped in at the very last minute they did
>admirably! And of course they had to play the hand they were
>dealt weather-wise so all we can do there is try to find dates
>that work well with golf. I would have three suggestions for
>future golf tournaments:
>1) Under no circumstances should we let the golf course send
>us out in groups of more than four. This just causes pace
>of play problems.
>2) When advertising the time of the event make it clear what
>that time means. Getting up early to make an 8am start - only
>to find out that the first tee time wasn't until 9am rubbed
>several people the wrong way. If there's an hour of range
>practice scheduled that's great, just let people know.
In the past, more explicit details about suggested arrival
times for golf appeared on the schedule. This year they did
not. Why? They were not submitted to us this year. Past
details included such things as the actual tee time and
practice/range times. One year I seem to recall the posting
of a very early "suggested wake-up time" to allow time to
get ready. :)
>3) Consider a scramble format. I brought this up last year
>in the org discussion and it didn't go everywhere, but
>everyone my wife and I talked to who played agreed that
>it would be more sociable, would speed up play, and make
>things more fun for a wider range of skills. Many were
>surprised that it wasn't a scramble to begin with.
Thanks, Kimberly.
Comments, golfers?
. . .
SOs and couples:
>>And then -- there's that request for a "couples" activity.
>>{Grab can of worms, walk in direction of can opener ...} :)
>I think it's the perfect solution to the concern about the
>definition of "SO gathering." If Bob or others want to
>encourage both partners in a relationship to come to an
>event it should simply be advertised as a couples activity.
>Keeping the more exclusive definition for SO get-togethers
>would be more likely to meet the expectations of those in
>attendance - but I wouldnt be surprised if the couples
>activity got more attendees.
>>Why? I don't know. The SOs among us are probably more likely
>>to be able to speculate as to why.
>My wife did talk to a number of the SOs and asked about
>the gathering and why they did or did not attend. She
>didn't make it herself because she wasn't feeling well,
>but I know at least one SO indicated to her that she avoided
>SO gatherings in general because they tended to be very
>negative.
>I think a good host can definitely help keep things interesting
>and if one were to circulate earlier, perhaps as coordinator
>for the proposed "SO Big Sister" program, that could bump
>attendance up.
>It sounds like that's what Bob did this year and it's a great
>step in the right direction.
First, I think the idea of a "SO Big Sister" program is good,
providing we have the volunteer commitment to get it going
and run it in an effective manner.
If there is a demand for, and volunteers committed to,
multiple SO gatherings and/or a "SO and partners" gathering,
I think it could be a Good Thing. However ...
My one concern is that I don't want to see DLV move in the
direction of "closed" activities (activities on the schedule
to which some of the attendees are not welcome) which has
been a very contentious issue at some other TG events.
. . .
Limo Tour:
>>For the Limo Tour, what I was hearing after the LT in 2008
>>was that there was the desire for more riding time and
>>less standing-around time. That's one thing we tried for
>>this year, but as you know, there were challenges in
>>getting people loaded, moving, etc.
>Insisting that all the limos move together is one of the
>reasons this gets complicated. Is there really a good
>reason to have us all converge on a stop at the same time?
We have on occasion talked about having different groups
of limos visit the stops in a different order, meeting once
mid-trip and at the last stop. This was primarily to keep
the number of limos in any group manageable.
There was also a recent suggestion to have certain stops
at designated times, but let the riders call the route
between them.
>Doesn't this just aggravate the washroom situation and draw
>unwanted attention?
Yes, having any case where we have conspicuous groups
of our people making an obvious bee-line for the nearest
ladies room will draw unwanted attention, and having 6-8
limos full of T-girls in need of a bio break can easily
cause this.
>It might be better to let each car follow their own schedule,
>perhaps even deliberately hitting the stops in a different
>order. If a group decides it's time to go, they can
>coordinate among themselves. If they love a destination
>they can stay as long as they like. Does anyone else feel
>similarly?
I think there is valid reasoning to keep the DLV limo group
somewhat together for camaraderie and mutual enjoyment of
the experience.
IMAO, having a totally open or "each car do your own thing"
type of limo tour approaches the "why bother?" threshold, as
anyone can do that anytime without involving the efforts of
the DLV volunteers.
. . .
Blue Ox:
>>Anyone: Any negatives about the Blue Ox?
>I think it would be best described as "okay."
>There's nothing really wrong with it, but it doesn't
>exactly have a lot going for it either aside from
>historical precedent.
>It feels a little like a throwback to having to schedule
>events somewhere out of the mainstream - but maybe that's
>just me.
>I wish I knew Vegas well enough to suggest alternatives.
For the past two years, Blue Ox has given us the two
largest turnouts in our history! If we're to replace it,
we need a replacement venue that attracts an equal or
better turnout.
If you wish to seek out and suggest alternate venues for
the opening mixer, or for any of our maximum-attendance
gatherings, please feel free to do so.
If there is a need, however, for a new venue for one of
our larger gatherings, I do believe that a replacement
for the Bahama Breeze is more in order. We've used BB
four years in a row and although I like it, I keep hearing
comments that some do not care for the food and others
think it's too "same-old-same-old" to keep using it for
more or less the same thing each and every year.
We had a slight but significant decrease in the turnout
for the Bahama Breeze this year compared to 2008, that
being 93 or so in 2008 and 80 or so in 2009.
Please keep in mind a few criteria, which are necessary
to facilitate an optimum turnout by all, from those who
are rank beginners and scared sh*tless, to those who have
decades of public exposure.
1. It needs to be unquestionably comfortable for those who
are new and just coming out. For those who may scoff at
this, please think back so many years to when you were
just taking your first baby steps out of the closet, and
consider those who are now traveling in your footsteps!
2. On the other hand, it needs to be devoid of any stigma
of being "closeted", such as the "safe" alternative bars
or a rented hotel ballroom.
3. It needs to be reasonable in cost, and be conducive to
that Quality Social Time which we know and love.
4. Ideally, it should have facilities for and be available
for a happy hour, a reasonably-priced dinner, and postprandial
social time.
. . .
Dancing at Paris:
>>+More dancing options - Paris - Le cabaret' is usually
>>+good (last two years)
>>I have a feeling that Kimberly K will be jumping on this
>>one. :)
>Definitely.
Thanks, Kimberly. When we start setting the schedule,
please think of where something like this could go.
I also think this could be a good candidate for a "more
than once" appearance on our schedule, if appropriate.
I do have one concern about this. I don't mean to be
alarmist, but I think we do need to be cautious about
one thing.
Although Paris is outspokenly GLBT-friendly, we need to
be very careful about restrooms. If complaints are raised
by the general public, particularly from known regular
gaming customers or high-rollers, some security supervisor
or duty manager is probably going to make a decision which
we do not like. We do need to be very careful about this,
please.
. . . . .
Mary Beth writes:
>I went to the Power Exchange on Thursday night (t-girls get
>in free) after NSD.
>I was the only DLV girl there. Some of the Wildside girls were
>there (in French maid costume) where they had a room for rubber
>fetish play.
>Just so everyone is aware of what goes on there, (Annie feel
>free to edit if you think appropriate):
>Power Exchange is indeed an adult sex play club. Any and all
>types of sex and sex play are allowed between consenting adults.
>All rooms are open to some degree and others in the building may
>watch any participants who are having sex.
>Alcohol, drugs, and the exchange of money for sex or sex play (e.g.
>spankings, etc) is strictly forbidden.
>Other than that, anything goes.
>This is definitely not for newbies or the shy, but it is an
>interesting experience for those who have the confidence to
>go.
Well, gang? Do we have comments or feelings on this?
Is this something which would be appropriate to have on
our schedule?
Comments on this will be appreciated.
. . .
Erotic Heritage Museum:
>>+Erotic Heritage Museum. Just opened. Groups of 10 or
>>+more get $10 off the normal $20 admission.
>I found about about this on Saturday morning as I was
>getting my stuff back to the airport, and wished I'd
>gotten to check this out.
>I'd be willing to host an excursion there if it's still
>open next year.
Thanks, MB.
Please keep track of it and when we start putting the
schedule together, pick a timeslot. IMAO, $20 is a bit
steep, but if it's $10 I may be interested in going,
if only for curiosity's sake. :)
. . . . .
Ginger writes:
>By the way, in addition to hosting at least one theater
>night as I usually do, the Southern Belle Society Social
>on Saturday afternoon, and several lunches, I'm proposing
>a make-over session at the Bare Escentuals store in the
>Fashion Show Mall probably sometime early in the week.
Thanks, Ginger. This definitely sounds like it will be
of interest to the DLV gang.
>I've been using Bare Escentuals for a couple of years and
>dropped in for a few things Saturday afternoon after the
>SBS Social. The clerk was curious about DLV and I gave her
>the web site address. Store personnel have access to the
>e-mail addresses of regular customers who have accounts and
>she later contacted me with a proposal. I need to send her
>in for the "big list," and for what it's worth, I've had
>makeovers at several Bare Escentuals stores and found all
>of them totally accepting.
Please, by all means, submit an entry to the Big List. If
you are confused as to how to do that, just send me the
info and I'll massage it into the correct format.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
About Rocky Horror:
Norma writes:
>Of course the traditional "live audience performance" is
>THE proper way to watch Rocky Horror.
>If that is not to be, how about gathering someplace and
>watching a videotape? That is how I first became acquainted
>with Rocky Horror many many years ago.
Although, IMAO, the only "real" showing of RHPS is the
full-scale 35mm film in a traditional cinema house with
the live cast reflecting what's on the screen, a properly
done small-screen presentation can, under the appropriate
circumstances, be enjoyable as well.
>This was before the tape was officilly released, and I felt
>I just had to get my own copy somehow. A friend of a friend
>got me a bootlegged copy. It was produced in Japan, and had
>Japanese subtitles. Somehow, they seemed quite fitting. The
>first time I saw the film in an actual theater, I was actually
>startled to see no Japanese subtitles.
>Since then, I obtained a legal version.
>I'd be happy to bring one or both with me to DLV for a
>"private" viewing somehow on some TV somewhere.
My personal feeling about RHPS, particularly when it comes
to deflowering and possibly sacrificing "virgins", is the
bigger the better, both in terms of screen size and number
of bodies in the audience. There's nothing that says that
a RHPS showing could not be done on a very small scale,
but I might suggest that arrangements be made with some
facility which has at least a medium-size video system.
Please think about how you might want to do this.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
So activities and concerns:
Jamie Renae writes (edited somewhat by permission):
>Concerning the SO event. My Wife was surprised to see a Male
>as the host. The common definition, historically, has been
>a Female Spouse, or partner, of a CD or TS.
>Her suggestion, for an SO get together, is during the Limo
>Tour, since many don't participate in that, and then meet
>back up with the Husbands, etc afterwards.
That is a different idea, I must admit.
The only way to see if something like that would work
would be to try it.
Comments, gang?
Last year's Limo Tour had 6 SOs signed up. The SOs who I
know appear to enjoy the Limo Tour, and their partners
always appear to enjoy having them along, so I don't
know how universal this desire would be.
A variation on this theme {wheels turning} might be to
reserve one limo for SOs only. :) :) :)
. . .
>The actions of a certain individual at the Irish Pub were
>also in question. (Publicly making out with two others).
>This was probably not what most Wives consider a
>dedicated SO.
This is the first report I've heard of anything like this
happening this year.
When people get carried away with carrying on in public,
it does create an awkward and often uncomfortable situation
for others in the area. (Not only for SOs, but potentially
for all of their captive audience.)
No, we don't have any rules specifically addressing it, but
I think it's well covered by such statements as "act as a
lady or gentleman", "consideration of others", and the like
in our guidelines.
It's a well-established precedent, dating back to DLV 1999,
that ANYONE, not just a volunteer or coordinator of record
can confront a couple engaged in ongoing kissy-face or
touchie-feelie and tell them to please knock it off or
take it elsewhere! This has been affirmed several times
throughout our history.
I know of no cases where the "happy couple" got angry
or confrontational when this has been done. Those
involved have always understood and complied.
Usually something like a lighthearted "Get a room, you
two!" will do the trick. If you feel more comfortable
calling one or both of them aside, do that instead.
>Speaking for my Spouse,
>Jamie R
Thanks Jamie, and Shirley. :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
General suggestions:
Continuing the wrap-up, here's a collection of general
suggestions from the survey.
I've commented on most, please feel to comment on your
own or respond.
. . . . .
+Let's have lunch and the SBS at 12 noon.
Do we have a need to adjust our customary start time(s)?
(I don't know, I'm asking.)
What I do think is a Good Thing is to have consistent start
times for such things as lunch/HH/dinner with any exceptions
clearly noted. (Even with a very clearly noted exception we
ran into some confusion for one lunch in 2008.)
Ginger, since you're the default hostess for the lunch and
the coordinator for SBS, what are your thoughts on this? It
will probably end up being your call.
. . . . .
+Let's move it back to April, when the temperature is cooler
+and our make-up doesn't run all over our face.
I think we've adequately dealt with the date/weather issue.
. . . . .
+You need a better way of paying for events. This stuff
+about find Annie for the limo, find Jami for the tea, find
+Amy for doves, is rediculous!
Amy at Glamour Boutique has volunteered to extend what she
did this year (handle payment for NSD) to other activities
which require or desire prepayment. This can give us close
to a "one stop shop" for payment for multiple activities.
That's the good news!
The bad news is that GB will be getting a cut of the action,
and rightly so. GB is providing a service, and deserves to
be compensated for it. This will result in the bottom line
price of some activities increasing to "cover the vig".
+Also, all of this cut-off deadline nonsense! We're adults,
+don't treat us as children!
I do not envision deadlines and cutoffs going away, sorry.
For any activity which requires a commitment and/or a payment
to a vendor, there will be a deadline imposed by that vendor.
That translates to a deadline we need to impose upon our
attendees.
The nonchalant attitude ("let me think about it" long after
a "defecate or abdicate" deadline has passed) is very common,
unfortunately, and that has forced us to impose hard and fast
deadlines.
This year we did have some people get very miffed at some
very-well-announced hard-stop deadlines!
Not to be a total b*tch here, but if everyone would behave
as an adult and be proactive about sending in responses,
making payments on time, etc., we could be far less
assertive and more flexible regarding payment deadlines
and such.
. . . . .
+A lot of activities that I wanted to attent were in
+conflict with others. It would be nice if the same
+activity like going to the movies, going to a Harmony
+Nail Salon, or going to a show/club could've been
+scheduled more than once on different days.
There is nothing that says we can't have more than one
session of anything.
For something like Harmony Nail Spa, I would think that
the Teeming Millions would know that they are welcome any
day of the week, not just on the Open House day. (Maybe
we should announce this?)
(For Movie Night, we can't seem to get it right once, let
alone multiple times.) :(
Over the years we've had multiple evenings at various clubs
and bars. We haven't had this for the past few years, however.
If somebody wants to coordinate two or more sessions of
about anything, please feel free to do so.
. . . . .
+Please hold next years DLV in cooler months with lower
+temps with more high end venues to select from and a central
+location for lodging for better socializing (pick one hotel
+on the strip) and not the Sahara PLEASE. The Stratosphere was
+a great choice for me and the VIP staff love the TG community
I'm not really sure what "more high end venues to select from"
is supposed to mean. (Hotels? Activity venues?) I think we
usually have a very good mix of "upscale" and "midscale"
venues, both for our suggested hotels and for our activities.
The issue of concentrating our folks in either one and only
one hotel, or having one hotel which is "more suggested" than
the others is a recurring theme in feedback.
I plan to introduce two motions (neither of which I'm very fond
of I admit) regarding hotels in order to resolve this recurring
item and hopefully put it to bed.
Nothing against the Stratosphere, but I really can't envision
that particular property (which I've always regarded as being
on the same "scale" as the Sahara) as being any kind of a one
and only one suggested hotel.
(Speaking of Sahara, there are more rumblings of an impending
closure and major rebuild currently going around.)
Comments?
. . . . .
+When the events are in a private room of a place (dinner
+at trevi) it would be nice to know that in advance. we
+spent an hour looking for DLV at Ceasar's.
It seems to me that the very obvious solution to this is:
1. Look at any "you are here" sign anywhere within the
Caesars complex for Trevi, or ask any security guard,
floorperson, hospitality booth, etc., where Trevi is.
2. Ask the host or hostess at Trevi where, exactly, the
DLV group is seated.
Is that too much to do? Should that have taken an hour? :(
Comments?
. . .
+When we went to sign up at Trevi the volunteer did not have
+any sign up materials with her although she was supposed to,
+Volunteer I know but if it says sign up then it should be
+available
True, however human error will occur. We do need to be
sure that we do what we can to be sure that all "check-in
available" activies are covered.
. . . . .
We very seldom get complaints about local transportation,
at least we usually didn't up until the last few years.
The survey indicates that this is not a widespread issue.
+Did you have any difficulty getting a ride to DLV activities?
+Yes: 3
+No: 79
However, for those for whom it is an issue, it's important
enough for them to stir the pot.
Last year (2008) we got a nastygram from a couple who
expected a ride at the last minute, didn't get one, and
ended up being very miffed about it. This year we got a
number of kinder-gentler, but related comments:
+Ride sharing- Some other means of getting people together.
+Listing by hotel is of little use as the name the person is
+registered under is seldom (never?) the name on the ride
+share roster. Vol. drivers cell #'s perhaps?
+It was very hard for a new person that knew no one to get a
+hold of someone to drive. I ended up taking cabs most of the
+time.
+We needed cell phone numbers. I never knew who was going and
+how to get a hold of someone to drive.
Our current ride share method is really a hold-over from when
we had far fewer people and most everybody got to meet most
of the others very early on in the event. In the late 1990s
and early 2000s, fewer people regularly carried cell phones.
Now almost everyone does. It's possible that we have outgrown
the current system.
Question: Is it broke(n)? Does it need (to be) fixed?
We can **TRY** asking for cell phone numbers of volunteer
drivers.
Even with assurances that the numbers will not be misused,
I'm sure that quite a few people will be very shy about
giving them out if they are to be published in any way,
shape or form.
+Yes, suggestion here. For the past couple years you've had
+a Big Sister Diva and a Room Sharing Diva. You also need a
+Ride Share and Carpool Diva.
Is anyone interested in taking on the role of Ride Share
Coordinator? (Don't all of you raise your hands at once!) :)
If this is to happen, somebody needs to "adopt" it.
If we were to ask for cell phone numbers of drivers and can
assure them that ONLY the Ride Share Coordinator will have
them, I think we'll get quite a bit more of a response from
the volunteer drivers.
Volunteers?
Another suggested option which I heard verbally was that we
shouldn't try to coordinate rides, but simply state that
each attendee is on his/her own and responsible for his/her
own local transportation, period. This came from both a "too
much bitching" perspective and a concern about liability
perspective.
Do we want to consider this option?
Along the line of strategic planning, one thing I think
we need to continue to consider is the distance between
the main Strip corridor and our activity locations, which
determines the relative difficulty of getting to the
activities for most of the participants.
Other than for golf, NSD, and the Lake Mead activities,
everything in 2009 was within a reasonable drive or taxi
ride from the Strip. These few off-Strip activities simply
will not work elsewhere, so overall I think we did quite
well in 2009 and we need to keep the transportation
issue in mind as we plan things for 2010.
. . . . .
+Having the approx cost of the venues posted so I could see
+what it may cost, before I show up and get suprised.
We should be doing this!
We are doing this.
However, we had some human error issues, particularly one
this year, where the cost noted on the schedule was very
low when compared to the real price, resulting in some
sticker shock. This was at the Thursday LWG at Harrah's,
and the price error was missed by me and by those who did
the proofreading of the final schedule.
We just have to remember to pay attention to details such
as prices in the future.
. . . . .
+For casino games, pick a place that has reasonable table
+game prices. $25 per hand minimum is to much for me, just
+learning the games.
I'm assuming this refers to Paris.
I very seldom play table games anymore because, as the
particular respondee stated, $25 per hand is too much
like real money! It's not enjoyable for me to put that
much at risk every few seconds.
The bottom line, however, is that the choice of a "gaming
night" venue will be that of the one(s) volunteering to
host(ess) it. That's one factor that they can use to make
the venue selection.
. . . . .
+Personally, I much prefer mainstream/in with the public
+events and activities. That's why I travel to Las Vegas
+and go to DLV. I've done hotel conventions, and find them
+stifling. I want to be out and about.
+I think we should plan alternatives so that people of like
+minds can do that throughout. And if people want to go to
+a closed activity that's their perogative. Just not mine.
The chorus of "Mainstream Mainstream Mainstream" has been
a chart-topping top-40 survey favorite pick-hit for a number
of years.
These comments would imply that some believe that there is
some kind of a shortage of mainstream activities at DLV.
The objective part of the survey indicates that overall,
the Teeming Millions believe that the balance between
mainstream and alternative venues is about right.
Let's do a quick peg count against our 2009 schedule,
counting activities in mainstream and alternative
venues.
Monday, May 11: Mainstream: 5 Alternative: 1
Tuesday, May 12: Mainstream: 9 Alternative: 4
Wednesday, May 13: Mainstream: 7 Alternative: 2
Thursday, May 14: Mainstream: 6 Alternative: 3
Friday, May 15: Mainstream: 9 Alternative: 3
Saturday, May 16: Mainstream: 6 Alternative: 2
Totals: Mainstream: 42 Alternative: 15
If there is a real, demonstrable shortage of mainstream
activities, where is it? Where's Waldo? :)
. . . . .
+For me the one thing that I sort of missed was getting to
+meet more of the Attendees. Even though we attended the
+final bash, it seemed like the same group of people we
+attended all the other activities with were the same.
+Although we did miss the opening meeting so perhaps we
+could have met more of the gurls then.
Another Solid Gold Music Power Survey Superhit during
sweeps week is the request for large(r) gatherings.
I think we did a great job this year and last year with
two highly-attended and highly-rated large-group functions
each year.
I think that two maximum-attendence functions, one at the
beginning, and the other toward the end of the event, is
about the right number.
Comments?
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