From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Tue Aug 11 2009 - 08:33:03 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Moving along
Strategic planning and the evenings
Ars Gratia Erotica
Golf comments
SO and the definition thereof
Afordability, SO activities and such
Solidifying the dates
Misc. feedback items
Administrivia
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Org List:
This is the DLV 2010 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Moving along:
Another long mailing. Sorry about the length, but all
of it is quite relevant.
We have a lot of very good discussion regarding the
various follow-up items. Please continue.
This item also concludes what I have to present from the
DLV 2009 attendee survey.
I would like to hear more from those of you who are new
to the DLV volunteer scene. Please don't be shy!
. . . . .
Marisa reports that Divine Decadence (local Rocky Horror
cast) is active again and holding shows on the first and
third Saturdays at the Onyx Theater, which is right behind
Spotlight Lounge, next to The Rack.
http://www.divinedecadence.org/
. . . . .
FYI ...
The individual who showed up briefly in the Discussion
Forum and stirred up a cloud of dust appears to be not
only a scammer but a board-certified twit! If you wish
further details, write in. Caution, the logs contain
some very salty language! :(
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Strategic planning and the evenings:
Let's continue discussing strategy for the impending event.
The evening lineups we've had over the past few years can
be divided into three general classes:
1. Single-track evenings.
2. Feature-activity evenings, with other options.
3. Multi-track evenings.
In looking back at our 2008 and 2009 schedules, it's very
obvious which evening is of which type. We had two evenings
of each type each year, with the first and last evenings
being the single-track evenings.
MB brought up an idea, stating that we should not have
"The Finale" on a final Saturday, one reason being that
a number of our attendees "bail" before the final day.
This piqued my curiosity a bit and I went back to the
final daily headcount projection reports for DLV 2009
and 2008.
Keep in mind that these numbers are machine-generated
rough guesses which, when compared to our actual turnout
for both years, are low, and also do not consider the
total headcount, but estimate the total in town on any
given DLV day.
For 2009:
Total projection for 2009-05-11: 89
Total projection for 2009-05-12: 99
Total projection for 2009-05-13: 113
Total projection for 2009-05-14: 111
Total projection for 2009-05-15: 106
Total projection for 2009-05-16: 96
For 2008:
Total projection for 2008-04-21: 95
Total projection for 2008-04-22: 100
Total projection for 2008-04-23: 113
Total projection for 2008-04-24: 115
Total projection for 2008-04-25: 115
Total projection for 2008-04-26: 103
Our maximum-attendance functions on the first and last days
of the event are not exposed to the "peak" of our overall
attendance.
Let's discuss, please.
Is it absolutely imperative that we have our first large
gathering on the first evening? Do we want to adjust
things to hold the larger things at more of a peak in our
attendance?
Thoughts?
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Ars Gratia Erotica:
Sarah writes:
>>Erotic Heritage Museum:
>>I'd be willing to host an excursion there if it's still
>>open next year.
>Marybeth,
>We had 16 (I think) turnout for our morning "Art Tour" when
>we went to the Atomic Testing Museum. It sounds like this
>would be an interesting option for the museum part of the
>tour while we reserve the afternoon for more of a traditional
>Art experience (we will try to avoid the abstract exhibits
>with limited offerings in the future by the way).
>Other museum options haven't been looked at yet so it's a
>little early to commit here, but I'd like to see a little
>discussion from those who either have or may participate
>in the Art Tour.
Thanks, Sarah.
I have a feeling that if you rolled the Erotic Heritage
Museum into the Art Tour, you would get more individuals
who would not ordinarily participate, and those people may
"stick" for the second part of the tour. A win-win if you
can pull it off!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Golf comments:
Mardi writes:
>Golf, what we are missing on the golf course situtation
>is the course is under new management.
>Mindy dealt with the old management, and when I got I
>found I or we are dealing with new management which I
>was not prepared for.
>We should not be put in a 5some they never work out.
>Girls it is our golf outing, so whatever formament we want,
>lets talk about it. Mindy was not there to help us, and to
>deal with the new management.
I'm not a non-golfer, so this may be somewhat naive
commentary. Please take from that perspective.
Keep in mind that in the relationship between you and the
golf course management that you (the DLV golfers) are the
customer and they are the vendor. They answer to you and
not the other way around!
If something is not right, one of the golf organizers
needs to bring it up with the course management.
Question here? Should you be considering a different
golf course? (I don't know, I'm asking.) In 2000 and
2001 the group played on the course over by Siegfreid
and Roy's estate. I don't remember why it was moved,
but we have 8 months to make a plan to assure a
great golf session next April.
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SO and the definition thereof:
Bob writes:
>The definition of SO may, in the past meant females only,
>but this is the present. There were 2 male SO's at this
>year's DLV and I was proud to be one of them.
>I fully expect to have at least 2 SO get-togethers next
>year. One for just the traditional SO's, such as Jamie
>Renae's wife and myself, and a couples SO get-together.
>I'm also planning on hosting a hike, for those interested
>in a little excersize.
We've had male SOs in attendance in 2001 and each year
since. We've always included male SOs in such things as
SO gatherings and I think that should continue. DLV has
had a long tradition of inclusion and "equal opportunity"
and I think that, as a general concept, is a Good Thing.
Yes, I agree that to some, the active presence of male
SOs and nontraditional couples is surprising, but I
suspect it's more that it's unexpected (as in "Who
Moved My Cheese?") or unfamiliar than unwanted.
Rather than have to hem and haw around the topic in real
time when DLV gets underway, we can be proactive and
update the FAQ (it's now covered in one sentence in a
general topic) to reflect this and also state it in one
of the general mailings as DLV approaches.
As for the hike, I'm hoping that you will plan this as
part of the regular DLV lineup of activities and not as
a SO-only or SO-partners-only thing. We haven't had any
"outdoorsy" activities for some time now and I think it
could be a popular daytime thing.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Afordability, SO activities and such:
Kat writes:
>After reading all of this I want to address a few items.
>We like to come to DLV but we can not afford the high end
>option (one of us works the other is unemployed and it isn't
>looking good).
>We passed on quite a few optins b/c they required prepayment
>and we had not saved enough by the time the date came up. So
>it would be nice if not EVERYthing was already full by the
>time we arrived.
>I am a SO and I would like to meet more SO's but it is
>difficult. So any SO gathering would be good for me. But
>understand my Gurl doesn't like to go without me so we
>often look for couple things to do.
>So keeping all that perhaps a SO event and a CD/SO event
>might be good as well. we went to one event (no I won't
>say which one) where I was made to feel as an intruder b/c
>I was the only SO there. Everyone needs to remember if I am
>supportive and enjoy everyone then let me enjoy things.
Thanks, Kat!
It's good to get input from SOs, and from those who are new
to the DLV ORG group.
You bring up a good point about keeping DLV affordable, and
we've always tried to do such things as having reasonably
priced options available when feature activities were on
the high side.
I'm very surprised that you did not feel welcome at one
activity. It's my observation that this is highly atypical
behavior for our attendees. I really can't think of any
activities we have where a SO, male or female, should not
be welcome. (I vaguely remember Tony crashing a Pajama
Party one year!) :)
>We came form Vegas just yesterday and the Erotic Museum
>should be a stop it is great.
Thanks for the report. From the discussion above, it looks
like this will definitely be on the schedule next year.
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Solidifying the dates:
JoAnn writes:
>To the Organizing Group--
>May I suggest a confirmation vote by "The Committee of the
>Whole"--- that would solidify _*our *_vote with an affirmation --
>Motion # 1: Diva Week will commence Sunday (start) 4/18 and
>end Friday night (end) 4/23 ...and hereby close any further
>discussion regarding the official date.
While I understand your desire to close things out, I really
think that at this point in time it's important that we not
try to change the rules in the middle of the game, or in
this case in the middle of a play.
The one-month Call For Comments has been publicized far and
wide. To try to "recall" it, cut it short, or replace it
with a plebiscite would only generate confusion and yes,
bitching. :(
Remember that when you once have a herd of cats finally all
marching in one direction, there will be a lot of yowling
and hissing if you try to get them to march in another
direction. :)
>Motion # 2: Let the Diva Event have a Post and/or Pre Date
>nominating ---- (a) the date and (b) Coordinator of the Day's
>Event(s)...
A Pre-DLV get-together is assumed. Done deal!
I think a Post-DLV thing and/or a formal extension of one day
may be in order, but I don't think that now is the time to
plan it or plan for it.
I think it's best by far if we let the dust settle on any
date/timeframe business, let the Call For Comments proceed,
and consider it a done deal if nothing of consequence is
brought up.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Misc. feedback items:
This will be the last of the survey items I intend to bring
up this year. (Why do I imagine cheering and applause, as in
Carnak's Last Envelope?) :)
This contains mostly various items not covered previously.
. . . . .
Name tags:
I would like to hear some comments regarding name tags!
+And what about the request to wear name tags?
+I found them to be helpful: 34
+I don't really care either way: 40
+I did not like them: 11
Speaking very freely here, name tags are high-maintenance
and a royal pain in the @$$ to produce! It all has to happen
at crunch time, since the roster is incomplete and inaccurate
until registration is closed.
There's behind the scenes work, such as dealing with cross-
registered couples, duplicate registrations, and back-and-
forth e-mailing to verify possible typos or nonstandard
spellings of names. (Many such queries are never answered.)
There's also a LOT of wastage! Our current model does not
allow a single mandatory check-in location, and we've had
as many as three sets of tags printed to be sure that all
check-in hostesses have any one person's tag. This also
translates to 2-3 discarded tags for each no-show and
for those who never actually check in and 1-2 discarded
tags for those who do check in.
They also cost real money, and the person fronting the
$$$$$ (me in recent years, others in previous years)
often does not get fully reimbursed for this!
This year I went "one grade lower", going for the stiff
plastic clip-ons instead of the soft vinyl clip-ons and
got this:
+I like the idea of name tags just fine, but the actual name
+tags we used are a royal pain. The plastic didn't fold flat
+so the paper card would fall out all the time, and the clip
+is a horrible choice for almost every outfit I wore during
+the week.
Is the personalized pre-printed name tag something we want
to continue?
Any ideas on how to more effectively address this issue?
I don't think we can insist on a single mandatory check-in
time and/or location. They just won't do it!
#include <JoAnn_herding_cats_analogy.h>
And no, I don't think a mandatory registration fee to cover
things like this is appropriate. It would create more issues
than it solves!
Thoughts? ("Outside the box?")
. . . . .
Map and schedule:
Another item I would like to hear some feedback on is the
effectiveness of the one-page printed schedule and map
which we handed out.
+Did you find our printed map and schedule to be helpful?
+Yes: 61
+No: 8
+What map and schedule?: 11
The majority did say that they found it to be helpful, but
11 either didn't know we offered it or didn't get one.
This is the first year we've handed out anything such as
this.
Is this something we want to repeat this coming year?
. . . . .
Group photos:
+why not have the group photo on the first night with over
+a 100 girls instead of the 40 i for one will not put my self
+out at 9pm to have a photo taken you will only get girls form
+the limo tour
Group photos -- another high-maintenance item. It doesn't
take that long, actually, but the Herding Cats analogy
really applies!
I was going to let it slide this past year, but Michelle
proposed that we do it by the fountains at Caesars. I think
it worked about as well as it could have.
I'm cringing at the thought of trying to get ca. 100 people
posed in or outside the Blue Ox during the Welcome Celebration.
Is a more inclusive and extensive group photo something we
want to pursue?
Are the large group photos really a priority for the rank
and file attendees?
Comments?
. . . . .
Hospitality:
This is one aspect of the program which I've been closely
watching over the past few years. Overall, I think we have
made a significant improvement in welcoming newcomers and
including those without close circles of friends over the
past three or so years.
In particular I observed both newbees and veterans mingling
and circulating at this year's Welcome Celebration and I
did not observe anyone who appeared to be left out.
+Did you find the other DLV attendees to be friendly and
+inclusive?
+Mostly yes: 67
+Yes, somewhat: 15
+Neutral: 2
+No, somewhat: 2
+Mostly no: 0
The responses here confirm that yes, we have high marks
for hospitality overall, but those who view it as otherwise
have been vocal about it.
Let's review some comments:
+I liked DLV it was fun but *ahem* there are lot of girls who
+are stand offish I know this is a get together for girls but
+I felt like an outsider and I know my SO felt it too. Maybe
+a little more opening up by the volunteers of DLV? I notice
+new ones were all together and all the organizers stayed
+together. I would think maybe organizers could get out and
+circulate more
I'm trying to envision where this particular perception
occurred. I know at the Welcome Celebration I noted that
the organizers and longtimers were indeed actively
circulating. I observed booths and tables containing
good mixes of longtimers and newbees.
These next two comments have a factor in common:
+However, we still went out to Boulder City for the breakfast.
+Arriving about 15 minutes late, we were barely acknowledged
+when we walked in if there was ANY acknowledgement at all.
+It wasn't until we paid our tab that we actually met a
+couple attendees which set the stage wonderfully for our
+dinner plans that night.
and ...
+I anticipated someone at The Welcome Meet & Greet at the
+Blue Ox to be on the look out for new folks with a "welcome,
+how do you do". A local girl I met in the parking lot on the
+way in at 9:30, we found about 30 girls in small groups, we
+discussed our surprise at the only reception was from the
+bar staff.
+As newcomers we did not feel very welcome. Even with this
+rocky start, I did go on to enjoy my first DLV. By the way
+I never saw this girl after that night.
The common factor here is that all were admittedly late.
The Blue Ox festivities were in the wind-down phase at
9:30 and I can believe that only 30 or so out of 105 were
still there.
I do think we need to take the time and effort to extend
a degree of hospitality to those who may be running late.
We don't want to encourage tardiness by any means, but we
can and should certainly go the extra 1/2 mile to welcome
those who, for one reason or another, arrive later than
most.
+My advice is that each event has a "hostess" and that
+person should have the RESPONSIBILITY to welcome people
+as they show up whenever they show up (smaller events of
+course, this would be difficult if not impossible at
+something like the Bahama Breeze dinner).
I don't think we need more formality along this line,
but it should be a given that the primary coordinator of
any activity is responsible for the overall climate and
hospitality during the activity.
This should include an appropriate welcome and greeting to
those who arrive, whether on time or late.
+Maybe in future might someone be on the lookout to welcome
+new people. They would be the one's off to themselves peering
+at the group waiting for the opportunity to join in. Some may
+find it rude to join in uninvited.
We should be doing this. I witnessed a lot of welcoming and
greeting at both our Monday and Saturday gatherings.
Did anybody observe anything to the contrary?
+Monday Night Gathering/Saturday Night Gathering-
+Introduction of orgainzers/volunteers so new people can
+put a face to a name.
Is there a need for something like this? I would hope that
the organizers and volunteers would circulate and get to
know the attendees on a 1:1 basis. I personally would
prefer this to an "on-stage" presentation.
Comments? Suggestions?
. . . . .
Unfortunate incident:
I don't know what, if anything, we can do about ...
+Saturday evening, I was accosted by 4 black men in front
+of my hotel (St T). I was made as a CD and the shouting
+began. These were loiterers with no business being there.
Things like this can totally ruin a vacation! :(
I don't think there's anything we (the organizers) could
have done to prevent this.
We can remind people to be streetwise and be aware of their
surroundings but other than that I don't know what can be
done.
I really believe that this individual was just a victim of
time, place and circumstance. "Sh*t happens!" :(
. . . . .
Bitching:
+Too much complaining by people who didn't volunteer or run
+activities
Agree!
(This HAD to come from one of our volunteers! No, it was
not me.) :)
It's been said that bitching is the National Sport of the
TG community. Some of our people certainly qualify for
Olympic competition in this category. :) :(
I really think that if those who do the bitching would
volunteer to take on a few of the activities which require
real work (a show, Limo Tour, NSD, dinner) that they would
be far less likely to pick us to death over things that
are not "just so"!
. . . . .
Expense:
>I found a lot of the activites prohibitively expensive for
>my wife and I. Unfortunately Vegas is way expensive, and we
Las Vegas is no longer the bargain it was back when most
everything (shows, food, rooms) was heavily subsidized by
gaming revenues, but, IMAO, Las Vegas is still reasonable
in comparison to other destinations. My room for DLV 2009,
which ran $50-ish, would easily be $200-ish in Chicago or
Manhattan!
Food is still reasonable.
Looking back at our schedule, the only things that stand
out as being over $40 per person to participate are Golf,
Theater Night, Limo Tour, Charles Bar (3 drinks plus tips
can break $40 easily!), NSD, and possibly the Bellagio,
Roy's, and Wynn dinners.
For our big gatherings, at both Blue Ox and Bahama Breeze,
it's very easy to get by for under $20 per person. Trevi
was a bit more, but not much, and their bar prices were
surprisingly decent.
Are we pricing ourselves out of reach of the average
attendee or would-be attendee?
. . . . .
Dress and appearance:
Saving the "best" for last here ...
The overwhelming majority of the attendees either support
or accept the Behavior, Dress, and Restroom guidelines.
+Which best indicates your feelings toward our level of
+attention to and enforcement of behavior, dress, and
+restroom guidelines?
+I support the current level of enforcement.: 70
+I don't like it, but I understand why it has to be.: 12
+It's a bunch of bullsh*t, knock it off!: 3
This has been very consistent from 2004 forward.
This year we had a handful of restroom issues, two noted
behavior issues, but we had a number of related comments
regarding appearance.
+In general, were you comfortable being seen with the DLV
+group in general public settings?
+Comfortable most or all of the time.: 62
+Mostly comfortable, but sometimes uncomfortable.: 23
+Frequently uncomfortable.: 1
23 out of 80-some, roughly 1/4 of our attendees, did feel
at times some discomfort when in the company of other
DLVers in public.
The "sometimes uncomfortable" number is up somewhat from
2007-2008 and up sharply from 2005-2006. This is reflected
by the following comments:
+Mostly comfortable being seen with DLV group in public.
+My uncomfortable times were when the DLV attendies were
+not dressed appropriate for the mainstream venues
.. and ...
+Being a SO, I probably shouldn't comment, but I feel that
+you can't stress enough, dress and (makeup) should be age
+and activity appropriate.
+Some attendees probably 30% just drew negative attention
+and responses especially at mainstream activities. I'm by
+far no expert at either subject, but some attendees looked
+as though they were made up for Halloween.
.. and ...
+To further answer: During DLV 2009, did you ever give or
+attempt to give another attendee some unsolicited advice
+or constructive criticism regarding dress, appearance,
+mannerisms, etc.?
+No, but I sure felt like it at times.
+I'm very hesitant to do this. I don't want to hurt feelings,
+I don't want to piss anyone off, and I sure don't want to
+lose a friend, which I'm afraid I would do if I did this.
and ...
+Most of the girls try, but they just don't understand what
+a "day look" means. You've got girls going lunch or shopping
+all done up like they're performing in a drag show.
+Then there's the other extreme, bad beard shadow. It has
+to be covered, girls.
I observed what these attendees are reporting. I don't think
it's at all attempts to draw attention or to say "this is my
style, get used to it" or anything like that. I think it's
the lack of practice and the rough climb up the learning
curve for the most part.
I did see one case that needed some correction badly, but
the ORG people (including the activity's OInC) were in
agreement to let it slide since it was the last night.
This was not beard SHADOW, but BEARD!
Most of the cases I saw were simply cases of things like
garish colors, ring around the lips, moderate beard
shadow, etc. Things that could be easily corrected with
practice, experience, and product/color selection.
Let me bounce this idea off the gang here and place it
on the table as a possibility for next year ...
Harmony Nail Spa now offers a reasonably-priced ($70-ish)
instructional makeover. They haven't been promoting it,
but one of their stylists does it.
If they still offer this service next spring, I'm sure
they can be talked into doing such a session during
their Open House, showing and telling what they do, and,
of course, booking appointments. :) Kind of like what
Jim Bridges used to do in the 1990s at the conventions.
Comments on this idea?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
This is the Diva Las Vegas 2010 organizational list.
One address for all items regarding this list, additions, removals,
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Diva Las Vegas 2010
Dates to be announced
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