From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Sun Apr 19 2009 - 14:45:35 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Blue Ox situation
Kimberly Komplin writes
Michelle writes
Bob writes
Mardi writes
Keri writes
Marilyn writes
Marisa writes
Norma writes
Jamie writes
Lorraine writes
Ginger writes
Mary Beth writes
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2009 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
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Blue Ox situation:
Thanks to all for the very timely and frank responses. Please
look over the following and make additional comments as you
deem appropriate.
Quite a few responses appear below. Please take the time to
read all, and additional comments and suggestions are very
much appreciated. It seems like every time I try to launch
this mailing, one other comment comes in. :)
One of our people is suggesting we consider other options for
Monday evening. See below.
If anyone else wants to seriously consider moving some or all
of the Monday activities to another venue, please speak up as
soon as possible.
. . . . .
Some of the comments below bring up the point that dinner may
not be an absolute necessity for the opening mixer. I would
like to hear further comments and feedback on this, soon,
please. :)
. . . . .
Michelle brings up a couple of very good points below which
I think we may have overlooked.
. . . . .
Historically speaking, there have been a few cases in our
history where a venue has either closed at short notice or
reneged on previously agreed-to commitments. In almost all
cases we have been able to work around things such that they
worked out to the satisfaction of most.
The risk I see here, if we were to change plans, is that it
might be difficult to give a new venue an accurate headcount.
Yes, we could just announce that the venue has been changed
and the price is estimated to be more or less the same total.
That's what we may have to do if we move it.
We're still almost three weeks out, so if there is a serious
consideration to changing the Monday venue, it can be done.
However, if a change is considered, or if other options are
to be explored, we need to get cracking!
Further comments, please. :)
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Kimberly Komplin writes:
First of all, a note from me to Kimberly. I feel badly that you
are stuck in the middle of this, and I'm sorry that it's become
a high maintenance activity for you. It wasn't intended this
way. :(
I know what it's like first-hand to have a cranky vendor on
one hand and 500 micro-managing colleagues on the other! :)
Until last week I considered Monday evening to be well
covered, a slam-dunk, and a guaranteed winner!
If you feel that you are approaching any of your limits, let
us know if you need some relief or assistance, either for the
negotiation in particular, or in general.
I think I speak for all here when I say that we do thank you
for what you have done and appreciate your efforts.
. . . . .
>So does that mean I tell them no DJ, or do we need to vote
>on it?
As I said, it's really your baby, but the consensus of the
feedback from the ORG people seems to indicate that we don't
particularly NEED a deejay, and that we don't WANT one if it
means any expense on our part.
If anyone thinks we need a vote on a deejay, speak up, but
I think the tribe has spoken, very clearly, on this item. I
don't recall any comment in this thread to the effect of
a deejay being needed or wanted.
See notes under Michelle's item as well.
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Michelle writes:
>Hi,
>Blue Ox thoughts:
>Seems to me there are two (three parts) to the evening:
>- Social Gathering
>- Drinking with socializing
>- Eating with drinking and socializing
>It IS NOT fair for us to two the first at the expense of a
>third party (ie Blue Ox). There should be some reasonable
>commitment that most will drink and most will eat there.
>Openly, my plan is to meet, drink and socialize but not to
>eat at the Blue Ox (although I have to say that when I've
>eaten there previously I haven't had cause for any complaint).
>But I do expect that I will have one or more drinks and
>realistically Blue Ox should get this level of business from
>everyone attending.
>I'm happy with a door charge of (say) the price of a drink
>(beer, wine, or discount on a fancy cocktail but I'm not
>prepared to pay for a meal I'm not going to eat.
>As for the DJ. I assume we didn't ask for a DJ and should
>therefore make it clear that if one is provided that we
>aren't interested in paying. Secondly it should be made
>clear that we want a socialising environment not a dance
>floor!
>Since I don't live in the US, I can't remember what the
>cost of a beer is but I seem to recall them charging $5-7
>for a glass of wine and that was (as I recall) similar to
>other places ... Other than Charles Bar of course!
>So if $6.95 was door charge and included a ticket/voucher
>for a drink then I'd go for that.
. . .
Thanks, Michelle. You raise a couple of very valid points
which we may have overlooked.
1. Is the Blue Ox really aware of what we want? I don't know,
and we need to be sure that Kimberly, as our representative,
is very clear on this and lets the Blue Ox staff know what
it is that we need and do not need. They may be presuming that
we want/need a deejay or other entertainment.
All we really want is a place to eat and drink and socialize.
We don't want or need any entertainment at all for Monday
evening.
2. We (DLV) can't forget that the relationship with a vendor
is a two-way street. They (Blue Ox) are in business to make
money and we can't expect them to give to take a bath, or
even take an unreasonable risk.
It's expected that every person through that door will be
a paying customer to one extent or another. There may be
1-2 stiffs in our gang, but almost all will be there to
drink and party and a good percentage will be there to eat.
I would think that with our history at the place, they would
realize that when we say there will be X eaters and Y drinkers
through the door, that we are very confident of those X and Y
values.
. . .
The cost of a bottled domestic beer, not on special, around
here anyway, varies from US$2.50 at the local Ameristar Casino
bar to US$8.50 or so at a bar with a band and no cover. For a
neighborhood bar similar to the Blue Ox, it would be about
US$4.00 or so.
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Bob writes:
>I agree wholeheartedly with Annie with her ideas on Blue Ox
>& also agree that we might possibly find another place in
>the future.
Thanks, Bob.
I don't want to dismiss the Blue Ox, either for this year
or for in the future until we're very sure that the situation
is not resolvable to our satisfaction.
Your other note will appear in the regular ORG mailing.
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Mardi writes:
>Is the Blue Ox NUTS, we are talking MONDAY NITE, What kind
>of business do the blue ox do on a MONDAY NITE, 6.95 TO go
>into a bar, goodbye, 17.95 is too much for dinner. Dinner
>should be about 12.00. We know that LV is hurting for money,
>but don't blame DLV for your problems.
I agree. Monday is a slow night for neighborhood bars, and as
everyone knows, business is down all over. I would think that
Blue Ox or any comparable place would jump at the chance to
serve 80-90 beverage consumers and 50-60 food consumers on
a night that would otherwise be break-even at best!
I also agree that $17.95 sounds high for dinner. I was really
expecting something in the same range as we had last year. Bar
meals usually run $10-12-ish. However, is there a valid reason
for the price increase over last year? Another activity had
an eye-opening increase, but when I questioned it and saw the
numbers, it was really within reason.
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Keri writes:
>In reference to the Blue OX:
>Personally I like to dance and probably spent more time
>than anyone dancing last year, but I also know last year
>the music was loud and they don't really have a dance floor,
>so no big deal; scrub the DJ if that is hiking the price.
>Last year I did not pay for the buffet as I am diabetic and
>have strict guidelines on what I can eat. I did however
>spend over 40 bucks that night ordering a salad off the
>menu and buying drinks and would do that again.
>I don't understand a cover when I plan on spending $$ every
>place I frequent and I figure a bar like Blue Ox does not
>warrant this. Last year I was at the Monday night dinner,
>ate lunch there on a Wednesday with some friends, and then
>there again Saturday for the SBS social. This equated to
>over 100 bucks on my three visits; if they don"t want that
>again no problem; the economy dictates many welcome doors
>for us.
>I have been at DLV for 4 years straight now and we also lay
>down $$ every Saturday during the daytime for the SBS social.
>No one is ever in the Blue Ox during the day and we make it
>profitable for them everytime we walk through the door. I
>wish to do the same this year on the first night as the prior
>years; besides being diabetic I have lost 40 pounds the last few
>months and would like my choice to order off the menu again.
>My choice is simple: I'm going to change my activity sign-up to
>no dinner, show up: and if charged a cover I will go somewhere
>else and eat. There are plenty of places to hang in Vegas and
>would love to see everyone again but I agree with Annie on her
>comments.
. . . . .
You also bring up a couple of very valid points. You reflect
the recurring theme that we have give Blue Ox a very good
business over the past few years and we will continue to do
so if we're not squeezed. If they try to squeeze us for all
they can, we will go where we're not squeezed.
You also reflect what my instinct tells me regarding any kind
of cover charge. I know our group, and I know the TG community
in general quite well and how our people tend to behave. If
there is a cover charge, ANY cover charge, it will discourage
some of our people from attending and put the turnout and the
overall satisfaction at risk. In other words, it will p*ss off
a number of our people.
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Marilyn writes:
>I strongly agree with the others about not having a DJ.
>Being totally deaf in one year makes it hard for me to
>hear with a lot of background noise. Besides that, for
>most of us the welcoming event is our first chance to
>socialize with DLV attendees that we haven't seen since
>last year and beyond. I also agree with your suggestion
>of a 1 drink minimum if an only if they insist.
One more against the deejay!
I think a one drink minimum is something we can live with,
but I'm hoping that this will not be necessary.
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Marisa writes:
>Yea for scratching the deejay, we may need that extra space.
>To be fair to where ever we go the management probably needs
>a number of eaters,so that they can have cooks and waiting
>staff on hand.
>On the subject of a slot tournament, isn't their bar area
>small for accommadating as large of a group as we had last
>year, if everyone pays a required cover to be in on it?
IIRC, the only machines they have are bar-top machines, multi
game, with a few slot options there. I'm sure they have a
"restricted" licence, so that limits them to only {mumble}
machines max.
>Did'nt the $10.95 include the deejay last year?
Yes, the deejay appeared to be a throw-in last year.
>I guess we're working with different people since Kim and
>Stacy are'nt there anymore.
>If PT's is an option, James working there is a big, big +++!
If you're acquainted with one of the staff there at PT's, can
you please inquire as to their capacity limits on a Monday?
Just in case we decide to make a change.
Thanks.
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Norma writes:
>About the Blue Ox:
>It would seem, as you say, that a venue would be happy to
>have a crowd our size on a slow evening.
>If another place is more to our (your) liking, seriously
>consider switching.
>But time is short.
>Make one quick attempt to re-negotiate with the Blue Ox, then
>make a decision.
>No DJ is fine by me, but if there is one, keep the level down.
>Maybe I'm becoming a crotchety old lady, but it seems to me
>that there is an abundance of pleasant music in the world.
>Why are these DJ events invariably just loud and raucous?
Not to digress, but ...
At the risk of sounding like a devil's advocate here, having
worked as a disco and wedding deejay in a past life I can
answer this, but it may not be what you want to hear.
At a club, loud music is indeed appropriate and expected. At
a dance, again, it's customary for it to be loud, and I even
daresay that you want it to impede conversation a bit! Get
those people off of their @$$es and onto the floor!
At a wedding, the standard practice is for the client to call
the shots, including the selection of tunes and the level of
the music volume. Some will indeed come up to you and tell
you to "crank it", particularly as the wee hours approach. :)
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Jamie writes:
>I feel that the Blue Ox is a really nice place to have the event. I
>will chime in with the others, about the DJ. My experience, with any
>music, is that they feel louder is better. I feel that most of the
>people there will want to talk and catch up one whats been going on
>since last year.
>A "first drink" cover sounds reasonable.
>I do feel, however, that our circumstance is different than most. Our
>customers are from out of town and we are looking forward to the
>visit. I can't imagine a low turnout. I do understand the managements
>fears though.
I agree that there will not be a low turnout for Monday, unless
things like a cover charge are imposed. I think management's
risk is mitigated somewhat by nixing the deejay, and maybe by
scratching the buffet dinner if they are feeling uncertain of
getting a certain number of eaters.
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Lorraine writes:
>hi
>all regards the blue ox i have never payed to go into a
>bar to drink unless it is a private members bar
>so i will not be going if this is there idea of service,
>we will fill the place for them i dont expect its full
>every monday do you
>see you soon
Ok, here's one more who is turned off to the idea of a cover
to the extent of skipping it if such a charge is imposed.
Out of 11 comments in this mailing, two have indicated that
they will consider skipping it if a cover is imposed. That's
18%, and if that's indicative of what we can expect from the
Teeming Millions, which I think it is, it's too many for my
comfort!
Comments, gang?
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Ginger writes:
>I freely admit I am a very picky eater mainly for health reasons
>and mostly began when I can be so I will not be eating. I'm ok
>with paying a cover charge, but it does seem like $5 ought to
>be enough or a one drink minimum. I'd also be OK with a happy
>hour or couple of hours and eat on your own which is what my
>SO and I are doing anyway.
>I would prefer no DJ so we will be better able to meet, greet,
>and catch up with freinds we have not seen in months or even
>years. Seems this is the advantage of a neighborhood bar over
>another bar.
Thanks, Ginger.
{squeak} Mark on chalkboard. One more in favor of no deejay.
Your other remarks seem to echo some of Michelle's thoughts
along the line that a dinner might not be absolutely
necessary either.
Comments on this, gang?
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Mary Beth writes:
>If there is time to do so, I think an alternative to Blue Ox
>should be explored.
>Is Marie Callendar's an option? I remember someone writing
>here that she ate there often without incident. DO they have
>a lounge area for people who don't want to eat?
I saved this for last, since you are the first to seriously
propose that we consider other options.
IIRC the Marie Calenders on Sahara does not have a bar. I
know the one just off of Trop at Eastern or Pecos or
somewhere in there does, however.
I don't think MC's would be a good venue for a mixer, and
I even question their ability to absorb 50-60 additional
eaters into their workload over a short period.
The one place that comes to my mind immediately is the one
that Nora has suggested for a Pre-DLV thing, PT's on Sahara
over by Glamour Boutique. I've been to PT's, but not that
one, and I don't know the capacity, for bar or food.
If PT's could handle 80-90 bar patrons, I would say it's an
option even if they couldn't handle 40-50 eaters all at
once since there are scads of other restaurants within an
easy walk.
Now, here's where our real challenge will be. Workload! If
other options for Monday are considered, it will take one
of us to, without hesitation, work out the details and get
in contact with our alternate venue(s). Kimberly has done
all of the initial legwork, we're just stuck on a few price
points.
IMAO, the cover charge thing is more of an issue than the
dinner price is, and when we remove the deejay from the
equation, the cover becomes less of a necessity, from a
provider point of view.
Let's discuss possible alternative venues so we have them
in our back pocket if needed, but for the immediate future,
let's let Kimberly do her thing and iron out the details
with Blue Ox.
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