From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Mon May 01 2006 - 08:42:37 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Following up
Blending comments
Transition nomination
Transition and volunteer
Various items
Comments and suggestions
Mindy writes
Blending comments
Comment on Bahama Breeze
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2006 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
Ongoing activity database appears on the web at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org06arc/acts.html
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Following up:
I think we can clearly say we had one for the record book this year!
Feedback is overwhelmingly positive. I'm planning to have the feedback
survey on line sometime this week. If there are any special questions
that should be asked, please get them in.
. . . . .
This mailing is a bit less organized than I like. Things are in somewhat
of a random order.
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Blending comments:
Aiko writes:
>>>I suggest that those who obviously do not blend should have a
>>>mandatory session with either Amy or Stephanie for some counseling
>>Ok, how do you propose to do a "mandatory suggestion" that somebody
>>needs a workover?
>>Whose responsibility is it to deliver the bad news? How is it done?
>I knew you would ask that! :)
And I knew that you knew it! :)
>The one person with a bad hair day has contacted me since the last
>mailing. She acknowledged our observations and is taking steps to
>blend like the rest of us. Personally, I feel she will blend well just
>as she did in prior years, and simply needed it pointed out.
I've found that most (most, not all) will respond positively to caring
constructive criticism.
I think the vast majority of our people do not want to bring on any
unwanted attention to the group.
Fortunately this year we haven't seen any of that "This is my style, get
used to it!" attitude!
The one person we had difficulty with last year dressed and behaved
quite commendably this year. I think if we get the word back to them,
in an appropriate manner, the feedback will be taken positively.
>The other two were observed not only by me, but by several DLV
>attendees that felt very uncomfortable to be seen with them in a
>mainstream venue. At times, this was actually to the point of
>embarrassment due to the obvious "guy in a dress" look.
>One of them was a newbie which I consider somewhat clueless. An
>example is, IIRC, when she walked into the Nugget for lunch in Parumph,
>she drew the attention of security like a beacon. I felt this also
>drew a lot of unwanted attention to the rest of us.
I'm sure that this was just a case of not yet having a good feel for
what works and does not work in certain settings.
{thinking out loud} I wonder if Amy over at GB would be willing to
put on a workshop, early in the week, for those who are totally new
to public exposure?
>The other person attended some DLV activities last year and is a second
>year returnee. Last year, she wasn't as obvious as this year. Since
>she knew me from last year, I asked her about the obvious beard shadow
>and the broad shoulder/no hip look.
>She said the make-up concealers were too pasty and the sheer foundation
>would be enough - since she had started hormone treatment. Also, she
>simply refused the hip pads as too uncomfortable.
>My suggestion: since the second person knows me, I could personally
>and privately contact her with the message to become less obvious in
>mainstream, which would include a session with Stephanie, or....
>(Spock) "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few...or the
>one".
I'm really not sure the best way to handle these things. I do think that
constructive criticism and peer pressure will probably be the most
effective.
I think that most of our people will be willing to adjust their ways if
they are made aware, in an appropriate manner, that they were causing
some discomfort to the group.
>As far as the newbie, I don't know the person well, and would ask in
>private messages to her friends for them to become her big sister,
>address the problem, and also schedule a session with Amy. If they are
>real friends, they should want her to be the best she can be.
>>Telling somebody that their look just doesn't work is not an enjoyable
>>thing to do.
>I agree. However, speaking with several attendees this year on the
>topic of BDR and blending, everyone I talked to definitely wants BDR
>enforced, but also would like everyone else have the "be the best they
>can be" attitude, rather than the "natural" look.
Agreed.
There's no question that the Teeming Millions want BDR to be followed,
and as an extension, for all to consider others and not to dress or
behave in a manner that draws unwanted attention.
The things I noticed -- all generalities here -- hanging out in groups,
loud talking and laughter, parading en masse from point A to point B,
all draw unnecessary attention. My guess is that nobody was doing
anything intentionally to attract attention, but they just were not
thinking at the time.
>>I do agree that one of the prevailing issues this year was that some
>>people were just too obvious. In a crowd of over 100, some of this is
>>going to happen, but we can work together to keep it minimal.
>These were the only two people that I personally observed.
>I heard there was an issue with an in-betweener at one of the lunches.
>Seems someone showed up wearing a blouse and wig, but no forms nor
>make-up. I didn't see this person, and it probably put everyone
>attending the lunch at a disadvantage.
>This happened prior to the Bahama Breeze issue, but, it now seems to be
>a no-brainer since the BDR is now known to be enforced.
>Comments?
Of course. :)
I think for the most part the days of the blatant attention-seeking
"look at me" types are behind us. The word is out that such things are
not welcome at DLV. The word is also out that if anybody tries to test
the rules, they will have a rather rude awakening to the fact.
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Transition nomination:
Aiko writes (first person, unquoted):
I have already asked Annie to place me on the transition team. That's
gives another meaning to the word "transition". :)
Over the past ten years, Annie has guided this event from a gathering
of a few internet friends, into the premier T-event in the world. No
one can replace Annie, and DLV should, and always will be associated
with her. The vacancy she left in the event can't be filled by only
one person. The continuation of DLV being the best T-event in the
world will require the cooperation of the entire group.
Using the positions Annie used in the transition mailing, there needs
to be a Moderator to maintain the direction and information traffic
flow, and a Project Manager who is strong enough to keep the the
activity planning on schedule.
I am now placing my name into the arena as a nominee for the positions
of Moderator and Project Manager.
If the group selects me as Moderator, my direction will be to keep DLV
as a "Vacation - not a convention". Also, the BDR guidelines will
continue to be enforced. As Project Manager, I feel that I'm "bitchy"
enough to keep the schedule of activities on track. :)
My first DLV was in 2001. Since then, I've attended each year and have
coordinated some of the activities that are still popular. The Limo
Tour was initiated by Tina in 2001, and consisted of one 8 passenger
limo that picked us up in front of the Tropicana after the Follies
show.
We had such a good time, that the next year, I quickly volunteered to
coordinate the LT. The LT of 2002 was the first multi-vehicle Limo
Tour of DLV. Other activities that I've coordinated have been
production shows and Night of the Soiled Doves. If selected as
Moderator and Project Manager, I'll continue to be an active
coordinator of activities...that's part of the fun of DLV. :)
DLV has become a very important part of my life, and I've made many
close friends from attending DLV. I will do everything in my power to
maintain the high level of integrity and direction that Annie has
established, and go foward to keep Diva Las Vegas the best T-event in
the world.
Aiko
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Transition and volunteer:
Ginger writes:
>"I want to be part of the transition team."
Ok, you're on it. Thanks. :)
>I hope my five-year attendance and activities coordinator record is
>sufficient to qualify for this team. I know and feel I relate well with
>most of the long-time attendees who may also be volunteering.
I see you as being very well qualified. :)
>I'll volunteer for the following assignments:
>*Corresponding secretary - After attending DLV for five consecutive
>years I'm familiar with DLV procedures. I am in full support of the DLV
>model and want to see it continue. I'm reasonably well organized, have
>good writing skills, and good access to email facilities.
>You and most of the others know me. You and many others also know how
>to find out what has happened to me through my SO should something
>unexpected happen...perish the thought! I'll volunteer for the job, but
>if there are others who are equally qualified and egger for the position
>it's OK with me to step aside for them.
Thanks, Ginger. You are our first volunteer of record for this one. :)
>*Coordinator for the following activities:
>a. I'll volunteer to do "Lunch with or without Ginger" in 2007. (See
>also my comments on how this went this year in my DLV 2006 evaluation
>and suggestions for next year sent separately)
>b. I'll volunteer to coordinate (alone or with others) a SBS Social in
>2007. (See also my comments on how this went this year in my DLV 2006
>evaluation and suggestions for next year sent separately.)
Thanks, Ginger. :)
>Accidents and unexpected health issues can put any of us out of action
>for a few days when we need to be the most active. For DLV 2007 I'd
>like to suggest an alternate for each position in the event something
>unexpected happens to the key person at a critical time.
There were 2 things that did not get done last year, one of those was to
have a designated assistant or co-coordinator for each nontrivial
activity.
Another was a training program for the new volunteers, to match them up
with a veteran coordinator to show them the ropes.
Neither of those really happened last year. Why? Shortage of resources.
We just didn't have the volunteers to assign a standby to even the most
important of the major items.
>Thanks so much for giving me the confidence to attend my first DLV five
>years ago when I was first coming out. The experiences I have gained
>from DLV and Pinkfest have changed my life and expanded my world. I
>hope I'm still growing as a transgendered person and enjoy helping
>others! I intended to give you a public thanks and a couple of boxes of
>Peeps at the SBS social, but forgot the Peeps and blew the opportunity.
>Thanks anyway!
You're very welcome. :)
Remember, you were the one who gave yourself the confidence. I and the
others just cheered you on a bit. :)
Oh, and yes, the people at Flex on Sunday evening had more Peeps than
they ever knew what to do with! :)
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Various items:
LeeAnna writes:
>I agree with others. This was the best DLV I have attended so far. Much
>more relaxed, people less bitchy, and it seems a "Good time was had by
>all"! Sounds like NSD III was the one dreams are made from... :+).
The consensus is very clear that DLV 2006 is one of the best, if not
*THE* best, of all times! It was a very good time, problems and issues
were minimal, and there was very little bitching that I heard.
>Things that were speed bumps in 2006.
>* Bahama Breeze is a wonderful place to eat and visit. Food is great.
>Music is great. BUTTTTT.. if dinner starts at 7pm, then there should be
>room for those that arrive at 7pm.
>For the second year in a row, they were not ready for our groups size.
>If we have a head count of who will be there, then they should be ready
>for that head count.
>I was never asked if I wanted food or drink and when I asked, I was
>told they were to busy. I saw 2 others in the same situation.
WHAAAAAT!!!!????? :(
That is not acceptable! :( Did you ask to speak to a manager? They may
have needed to adjust some staffing levels, but telling you that they
were too busy to serve you -- something is wrong somewhere.
They did assure us that there would be adequate staff this year.
Nora, are you aware that this happened?
>When food did arrive for others, it was "Auctioned Off" to whom ever
>said it was theirs. There should be a food manager from Bahama Breeze
>in the middle of it all. At the end, they wanted me to pay for my
>meal.... sigh.
I did notice some confusion. I didn't have to "bid" for my dinner, but I
did have to remind the waiter that it was mine. Most waiters have their
own system to remember who ordered what, and it was clear that nobody
was following anything like that.
>Things that should be added to the Vendor list.
>I and several other girls used the services of "A Harmony Nail Spa" for
>nails and hair. Paula did the most perfect set of nails I have had in a
>longtime. Erich did a wash and roller wet set for me that turned out
>very nice. I know he set at least one other DLV gals hair with good
>results. This is a full service spa and it is decorated amazingly
>soothing. Paula, Erich, and staff are now my place to go when I am in
>Las Vegas. Phone is 702-792-6245. Address is 953 E. Sahara Ave, Suite
>E-11A, Las Vegas, Nv 89104. Erich says he does wigs too!!!! Ain't he
>great! They are in the Commercial Center near Spotlight.
>The list of things they do, Manicures, Hair cuts & styling, Pedicures,
>Formal Updos, Acrylics, Skin Care and Facials, Nail Art, Tanning &
>Massage, Yoga, & Holistic Healing.
Thanks, LeeAnna. I'll get that added. I have a few others to add as
well.
>That's my overview for DLV 2006. As you say, if it ain't broke do not
>fix it!
Thanks again. I do think things went well this year and the snags that
did occur were very minor in the grand scheme of things.
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Comments and suggestions:
Ginger writes:
>>What activities worked, what did not work, which should be repeated,
>>and which should be ash-canned.
>Attending DLV with my SO changes the entire dynamics of DLV for me as I
>have to accommodate her interests which don't include bars! Again this
>year I missed having more time to hang out with my DLV friends.
>The only bars I made it to was Charles' at the Bellagio on Thursday
>night and Goodtimes Friday on night! When others went downtown to
>Fremont Street we went home to bed, but I was there in sprit! We did
>see Avenue Q, Hairspray, and Mamma Mia which took us away from
>regularly scheduled DLV events. However, this is what makes DLV so
>good. We can all do regularly scheduled events, or our own things,
>and in the case of my SO it's theater.
>*Lunch with or without Ginger - Ginger made all of the lunches this
>year and noted the following approximate attendance:
>Monday @ Sahara - 12 people
>Tuesday @ Sahara - 24 people including some not registered
>Wednesday @ Hilton -12 people
>Thursday @ Harrah's - 16 people
>Friday @ Bellagio -16 people
That sounds like a good group all days! I didn't take a headcount on
Friday, but it looks like the gang followed you as you moved around.
>We all know the Sahara Buffet offers great value during the week. In my
>opinion it's overpriced on Sunday when the price doubles for champagne
>and snow crab.
Agreed. Sahara buffet is consistently "ok", and I ate there a few times
this year and found it to be very predictably "ok" this time as well.
For the price, it is not bad, except for weekends as you say. :)
>Lori was right about the food at Harrah's being the best and it may
>have the best value in terms of the best food for the price. Next year
>we want to go back, maybe more than once!
>I think all of my dining companions will agree that in the future we
>need to avoid the Hilton Buffet.
I'm quite surprised and astonished. That's one I've always found
consistently good, and always a couple notches above the buffet at
the Sahara. Too bad it slipped. :(
>The Bellagio Buffet is an excellent experience, and while the prices
>are steep those who ate there appeared to enjoy it greatly.
>Generally everyone at the lunches dressed and behaved well.
>One person at the Bellagio was dressed in what appeared to be mixed
>mode, which she described as unisex. Another person at the Bellagio was
>wearing a longish black wig, but dressed in boymode perhaps somewhat
>too casual for the upscale location.
We did agree several years ago that mixed mode was not cool in public
for DLV. Perhaps we need some reminders about this.
IMAO, anything that is not close enough to complete boymode or complete
girlmode that it attracts attention -- actually anything nonconventional
to the point that attracts attention by itself -- should be a no-no.
>My SO observed some of our dining companions needed to read Emily Post
>on table manners and silverware usage.
LOL! In addition to a consult with Amy, do we want a consult with Miss
Vera's Finishing School? :) :)
But seriously, we might ask Yvonne to pus some of her observations on
etiquette in writing and add them to our pre-DLV postings.
>*Death Valley: Suggest an earlier starting time; the late return
>prevented us from attending the early Suede events.
Yes, I'm aware that we had a time issue. Unfortunately the confusion of
the rendezvous location followed by the traffic hassle getting out of
town put us an hour or so behind. :(
>*Night of the Soiled Doves III: This was a premier event and should be
>continued in a similar manner for 2007!
Agreed. The best NSD ever!
>*EON Bertolini's option - This was an enjoyable meal with several
>long-time friends. Unlike last year, everyone appeared to be dressed
>appropriately and on their best behavior for this somewhat upscale
>restaurant.
That's very good to hear. :)
>*Dragapella - Great show by a great cast and my SO especially would
>like more events like this one. We were responsible for obtaining our
>own tickets and I can see this working for future shows.
>For next year I'd like to suggest "Theater Night." This would be an
>alternative activity as it probably would not appeal to lots of people
>and the prices would be relatively high. We can select one or two major
>productions early enough to obtain tickets.
>I'd like to suggest one of the Cirque du Soleil productions; Zumanity
>comes to mind although my SO and I saw it last year. "O"€is another one
>that might be good. Others?
>We could perhaps gather before the show for drinks in the hotel's bar
>or better meet in a safer place elsewhere afterwards. Comments anyone?
>If there is enough interest I'll coordinate and get out the word on
>ticket availability, etc.
Theater Night? Comments, ladies? (Gentlemen?)
>*Limo Tour (Riviera)- This was a well planned and executed event.
>However, one of our limousine companions stumbled upon entering the
>coach injuring her head and knee. She may have tripped over the beer
>bottles left in the limousine by the prior occupants or the styrofoam
>cooler placed in the coach by the coordinators. When she fell she also
>crushed the styrofoam cooler spilling our ice on the floor. I'd like to
>suggest that next year ice and beverages be placed in the limousines'
>built-in containers and the floors be kept clear.
If there were beer bottles in a limo, somebody's not doing their job.
Was the limo company informed of this?
>*Charles Bar (Bellagio)- We were there for one expensive drink and
>left. It's a nice place and Charles is an accommodating bartender.
The drinks and service are both good, but ex$pen$ive! :( Quite a bit
different than Happy Hour over at Freezone! :)
>*SBS Social (HM)- Next year we need to take a safe option and chose a
>sure place early rather than delay waiting on possible facilities.
>I thought Hamburger Mary's was a great location and nominate it for
>next year. I had not envisioned many including myself having lunch
>there, but it turned out that way. Next year if I am selected for DLV
>lunch duties I'm going to suggest "Lunch with or without Ginger" for
>1:00 p.m. at Hamburger Mary's on Saturday and call a SBS Social
>following for 2:00 pm. at the same place!
>>Thoughts about the size of DLV and the length of DLV, etc.
>The length was fine, but between Southwest's delayed flights and
>conflicts which required us to arrive late on Sunday and leave the next
>Sunday afternoon we missed a lot of it!
>>Our suggested hotels. Did our people like them? Were there any major
>>issues?
>The Sahara was fine, but it does seem the crowd there was rougher in
>appearance than in past years. Regardless, I felt safe all of the time
>and the staff in the Buffet and Cafe seemed friendlier than in past
>years.
Hmmmm ... I really didn't notice that much difference in the Sahara this
time. The biggest thing I noticed was that the cocktail service in the
casino is now more frequent than it was last October, when it was very
slow.
The Sahara will never be mistaken for the Bellagio, but it's a clean and
comfortable place.
>>Secondary programs such as Big Sisters, roommate matching, ride
>>sharing.
>I had a little sister. She was great and could very well have been my
>big sister!
>>Our model. Recreational and participatory activities only. Unpaid
>>registration. Each activity autonomous.
>This is what makes DLV special. Attend, do things with friends or do
>your own thing when you want. I can see this expanding and have
>suggested "Theater Night" above for discussion!
>This was the best DLV ever, but each previous year has been better than
>the last! Let's all work to make 2007 even better!
{squeak - mark on chalkboard} One more vote for 2006 being the best! :)
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Mindy writes:
>i would like to be part of the transistion team.
>as a multi year event planner i feel i have a place on the team.. i
>would also be willing (subject to health considerations) a part of the
>planning team..
Ok, thanks, Mindy, you're on the team. :)
>i would not take on the position alone as i will with out a doubt have
>a period of time when my health will keep me out of the loop for a
>couple of weeks or more at a time.. i will however make myself
>available to the org group most of the time and as i have done in the
>past make my events happen on time and as advertised.
That's really what we need. If everybody would just volunteer to do
one nontrivial activity and follow through with it, we would have
more things to do than would fit on the calendar. :)
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Blending comments:
Caitlin writes:
>>>At times, I had trouble identifying some ladies as part of our group,
>>>because they blended so well.
>>I suggest that those who obviously do not blend should have a
>>mandatory session with either Amy or Stephanie for some counseling and
>>make-over help.
>What kind of hipocrisy is this? "Barbie Dolls vs. those who were dealt
>a genetic "low blow"?
I'm not hearing this as hypocrisy, but reality.
Those of us who were issued the birthday suit from the wrong bin learn to
do things to compensate for the fact.
We have very few Barbie Dolls at DLV. Still, most of the attendees do at
least a fair job of dealing with what Mother Nature gave them. Some of
them, however, may need a bit of coaching in order to do this.
>And no. I didn't attend DLV this year due to work and family
>obligations. I cried. I really, really wanted to go. DLV 2005 is one of
>my fondest memories.
>I'm big. I'm probably physically bigger than John Lithgow in "The World
>according to Garp". I'm 6'2" and about 250. I have GG aunts who are
>6'4" and wide shouldered. My ancestory is Scandinavian. You know, long
>boats and "Let's go and lop some heads off with Broadswords!".
Women (both GG and TG) come in all sizes. I'm not hearing anything here
saying that those who are physically larger are any less welcome at DLV
than those who are small.
Throughout the history of DLV, I can cite several cases where those who
blended the best and were quite undetectable were some of our more
physically large attendees.
What I am hearing, loud and clear, is that everybody should consider
others and do their best to not attract unwanted attention to themselves
or to the group.
>Every time I get dressed to go out I have to face that damn genetic
>fact in the mirror. Do you really think that you need to remind me of
>that? Are you better than larger people simply because of your physical
>dimensions? I don't think I really have much of a choice. Please
>correct me if I'm wrong on this matter.
>You're being svelte and petite makes you more of what? I don't think
>that compassion or understanding are on the list. I think it's sad to
>hear this from within the "community".
I think you're reading this totally wrong. I didn't hear size as an
issue here at all. What I'm hearing is that some, just due to
inattention or oversight, brought on more attention to themselves -- and
thus to the group as a whole -- than needed to be.
>Perhaps sensitivity training should be mandatory as well.
Yes, everybody needs to be sensitive and considerate. This is a two-way
street. I'm not hearing anybody being intolerant of those who may have
more of a challenge blending.
This year, fortunately, we didn't seem to have any of those who were
blatantly inconsiderate. What we had were a few cases where certain
styles or looks just didn't work and in the process stood out, and I
don't think any of these were intentional.
We had a couple cases of the "too natural" look, and a few cases of
looks that appeared to be not very well put together. None of these
were major, and I think a little bit of coaching, and perhaps some
makeover assistance, would make all of these cases non-issues.
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Comment on Bahama Breeze:
Yvonne writes:
>I've also already talked to Nora about what happened. I can also take
>some of the blame for getting there late.
>Again, I arrived late at Bahama Breeze which I can take the blame for
>being late ....
>What really helped was the valet parking.
>There were no tables available near the 'fire-place' and every seating
>was taken, and the next area was reserved for another big party that
>was to arrive later.
>After talking to a staff person, and it could have been a manager, he
>gave us a round table near the window, which was next to the stairway
>that led to where our group was eating. I thought it was very nice of
>them to give me and a few others a table in that area.
>I expected a waiter and a menu to come shortly, but after 10 minutes...
>I thought I'd flag down one to get something to eat. All the table
>had was a bar drinks menu...no silverware or settings.
>I realize the staff was over burdened, and I tried both waving and
>speaking, and even raizing my voice to get the attention of a waiter to
>order. I tried several times over the next 15 minutes and never got
>the attention of a single server...they kept on running back and forth
>helping and serving other tables from our group.
>About 20 minutes passed... at least I was able to get a piece of that
>delicious wedding cake. I had to grab some silverware from another
>table to be able to eat the cake.
>Still no service from any waiter. I then began talking to others in
>conversations and tried to get a waiter that was at other tables....
>and never was able to get their attention. They were too busy
>concentrating on delivering food or dealing with the bills, and
>basically ignored my attempts to get some sort service back at our
>table.
>Shortly after, one waiter even shouted out if everyone was served, but
>didn't hear my response saying "NOT over here". Maybe he didn't hear
>me for I was behind and to the right of him... but he never turned his
>head on my direction. I apparently didn't exist... or it seemed I WASN'T
>in a area that was to be served by any of our group's waiters.
>No matter what I tried to get any waiter's attention didn't work. I
>then even tried standing in their way, they just ignored me and
>walked around...nothing seemed to work in getting their attention for
>all of them quickly ran in and off again.... At this point I was
>thinking of having to run with them to get their attention, then I
>thought its not worth it....that was asking too much, so I gave up and
>sat back down.
>Annie came and talked at our table, and while there, a waiter came to
>see her about her bill. I again tried to get this waiter's
>attention... but all he was interested in was getting Annie to sign the
>bill and immediately took off running, ignoring me completely.
Now that you mention it, I do remember this somewhat ...
>I think I'd given management and staff ample time and attention to give
>me some sort of service, but gave up eventually after realizing that
>mostly everyone by this time had now finished eating and was beginning
>to leave ( now 30 minutes have gone by)...and I never even got a menu
>or any type of service.
>I think I gave management enough time and chances to serve me. When
>everyone was beginning to leave, It was only then I talked to Nora
>about it.
>I don't blame Nora at all.
>I blame the waiters and management for the FAILURE and NON service.
>They gave us the table, but gave no service to that area.
>I'm sure Bahama Breeze has good food and under other conditions has
>good service, but from my perspective that day, that resturant gets a
>big failure from me. The meals looked good and smelled delicious, but
>never got to try it.
This is, unfortunately, the second report of this nature. :(
We were assured that adequate staff would be provided.
Did anybody bring the problem to the attention of management in real
time? If not, why not? Things like this need to be brought to the
attention of management as they happen.
There is no excuse for flagrant lack of service like this.
>However their Valet service was excellent.
One thing I did appreciate was that they didn't object to me leaving
my car there that evening and pick it up the next day.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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