From: annie@ivgate.omahug.org
Date: Wed Nov 09 2005 - 10:53:02 CST
I'm taking the liberty of combining a couple responses into one
message here. I hope that's OK. :) Sorry for being so long-winded.
. . . . .
>Even if the 2/3 majority vote to change the dates, it also makes sense
>to include the current unfortunately high-priced dates as an option,
>just in case those are better for the greatest minority.
I tend to agree, even though I think it's a moot point. If the high
priced dates were best for most I don't think we would have seen such
support in favor of reconsidering.
I don't think we've excluded the original high-priced dates as an option
if and when we do accept nominations for a new timeframe, assuming
somebody does nominate that set of dates, which I do expect to happen,
actually.
>I also agree that organizers' and regular/frequent attendees'
>schedules and plans should be given some priority. (examples but not
This view has been reflected in other words too. We do have a good
number of very active people who have given a lot to DLV and we
certainly don't want to lock them out. On the other hand we also have a
good number of recurrent no-shows, a few of whom participate more in the
vocal sense than in person. We also have some who show up in person but
don't really participate. They let us know they've arrived in no
uncertain terms but don't really add that much to the event.
Yes, those who actively and constructively participate should be given
consideration over those who do otherwise.
. . . . .
>I also agree that having reasonably priced rooms at the Sahara is a
>worthy aspiration of our scheduling efforts.
>If it turns out that plans have been made and the current dates are the
>only ones many key people can attend, perhaps we can do something like
>room sharing, guest hosting and condo renting to try to keep the
>accommodation costs down.
I would say that whether or not we vote to reschedule, efforts along
those lines would be appropriate and appreciated by those who need a bit
of leverage to make the trip affordable. As I look over my own numbers
for DLV 2006, lodging will be the most expensive item.
We've had roommate matching for several years. It's worked somewhat, but
there have been complaints, smoking and quiet hours seem to be the major
issues.
I did put my foot down a couple years ago when a couple of roommate
wanted items began to look more like personal ads. :) :(
I'm assuming that Diane will once again do one-on-one roommate
matching this year, but if you (or anybody) wants to coordinate a
condo (dorm?) type program, I don't see any major issues with it.
Comments on this, gang?
. . . . .
On bitching ...
>I vote that Annie or whoever is running the show pick the dates
>themselves. No discussion, no consensus, this is what it is. No
>bitching cause no one had a chance to lobby for the dates they want and
>no disappointment for the same reason. Only
The one thing I want to avoid is bitching. I heard a lot of it before,
during, and after last DLV, and to be quite honest I think I heard
more of it than any other single person did.
One remark recently made to me was along the line "wow, we had a very
bitchy crowd this year, didn't we?" or something like that.
We did. (Have a bitchy crowd, that is.) There were, unfortunately, a
number of failed expectations and a few of our major activities just
did not turn out the way we wanted.
We also had an unfortunate situation with one vendor which actually cast
a pall over the whole event, and the food and service of a couple of our
other regular vendors was substandard.
Our ending weekend was a scheduling clusterf*ck, pardon my French! :)
In other words, much of that bitching had merit -- but much of it did
not, IMAO.
Some people will bitch just to hear themselves bitch. :) :)
#include <tautology.h> /* :) */
Enough on that topic. ...
Well, maybe not ... One thing we've had a lack of is bitching from
this group regarding the current scheduling snag. I appreciate it,
and everybody needs to be commended for the level-headed "let's fix
it" attitude. Thanks, gang. :)
. . . . .
>I am going to submit that people are not returning to Diva as Tina
>mentioned solely for the reason that they had a chance to stick their
>noses in, didn't get their way, and were left with hard feelings.
Let's see -- how do I put this -- and I'll speak very freely, as if
I never do. :) ...
People attend DLV for all kinds of reasons. Some (most, hopefully)
come to celebrate life end enjoy each other's company. Most of the
people on this list fall into this category. That was the original
purpose of DLV -- and still is, IMAO.
Others come in order to gain exposure to the community and to the
general public. Some of DLV's greatest success stories are those who
were shy newcomers who have now gained a sense of confidence with the
help of the others at DLV.
Then there are some who come primarily to seek attention, and these
are the ones I personally have a problem with. :( Some of these just
try to show everybody how cool they think they are and don't give a
sh*t about helping out.
If you look back at our collected B/D/R incidents, you'll notice that
many (not all, however) have to do with somebody striving to loiter in
the spotlight.
(Some of our B/D/R victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong
time, had a case of naive overconfidence (or urgent need for a bio
break), or happened to be just off stage when one of the above was
basking in the limelight, but I'm wandering off topic here ...)
But back to what I was trying to say ... those who tend to be very
self-centered will try to get their own way and if they don't will
do such things as throw a tantrum or stomp off with their nose out
of joint.
Our group, for the most part, is very good at weeding these people out
and not giving them the attention they seek. These are the ones who
seldom volunteer, seldom provide input, but bitch loudly when things
don't appear to be going their way.
And now I'm going to play my own devil's advocate. ...
Throughout the history of DLV I've been approached countless times by
those who have ideas of making DLV more like the various mainline t*
conventions. I admit that it most cases I've summarily poo-poo'd these
ideas. Sometimes I've pushed back rather assertively.
Guilty as charged!
If there are noses out of joint over this, I'm sorry. That's not what
the Founding Fathers And Mothers of DLV had in mind.
Ditto with countless other (mostly well-intended) suggestions to do such
things as merge DLV with another LV t* event, make DLV a program under
the umbrella of a certain t* organization, incorporate, formalize, etc.
We do one thing and we do it very well, that being putting on one yearly
event that has literally changed lives. It ain't broke, it don't need
fixed! :)
Maybe I've come off as poo-poo'ing the person and not the idea. That
was not my intent and I apologize if I came off that way.
Anyway, enough ranting on this topic for a while ...
. . . . .
>I am bringing a motion to the table....... that Annie decide herself
>which dates she wants Diva to be this year.
We currently have one motion open on the floor. When it carries or
fails, you (or anybody) can move for this again.
However, should such a motion carry, I would respectfully decline to
unilaterally set the date. That's just not my style. We're a volunteer
organization driven by a collective effort, and we need a collective
decision here.
>There wouldn't be one without her original efforts for which we are all
>thankful so let's give the girl a rest from all of this as a thank you
>for her hard work.
>I don't think she'd mind a couple of less hours fussing with this on
>her off time.
Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.
If you really want to make my DLV life easier, here are a few
suggestions:
1. Get your vote in. Still a number of normally vocal people have not
sent them in yet. Everybody receiving this list gets one vote, yes,
including >>YOU<<! :)
2. Most important -- look over the schedule and think of things to do
and places to go, and consider volunteering to make them happen! :)
Thanks, gang! :)
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