From: Annie (annie@geekbabe.com)
Date: Sun Jul 21 2002 - 00:06:44 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Call For Votes
More inbound missiles and pussycats
Michelle (NV) writes
Lounges and limo
Bars and such
TGs Do Draw Stares
Multiple Breakfast Buffet Locations
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2003 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
Ongoing activity database appears on line at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org03arc/acts.html
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Call For Votes:
I would like to call the question regarding the scheduling of DLV 2003.
We've narrowed the options to two which have been discussed for the past
month or so.
Please reply to this message and send in your vote for one of the
following:
1: Tuesday, April 22 thru Sunday, April 27.
2: Thursday, May 1 thru Tuesday, May 6.
Both of these have the option of possibly extending at a later time, as
we have discussed.
You may either send in your vote to: dlvorg@geekbabe.com or just reply
to this message.
Please indicate your vote by number, 1 or 2. As always, do not send in
comments or discussion with your vote.
We'll consider the polls closed when no further votes arrive for a period
of 24 hours.
Thanks, gang. Vote early. (Vote often.) :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
More inbound missiles and pussycats:
Michelle (NZ) writes:
>Hi
INCOMING! DUCK! {whooooooosh! BOOOOOOOMMMMMM! meow}
Ladylike Article:
>>>I like Laura's article, it's very well written and fun, ....it's very
>>>well done.
>I agree. It seemed OK to me
>>>+* A tour of strip hotels and a visit to old downtown Las Vegas in a
>>>+caravan of six limousines filled with raucous Tgirls;
>I thought there were five cars with six girls each in them. Or was I too
>drunk to count correctly?
Uh, let's see ... Uh, I'm not really sure. :)
. . . . .
Bars, Brawls and Happy hours and hookers:
>>>2. on the subject of casino bars, our group at IP, (5 TGs dressed and 1
[munch]
>>>no problems ...
[deletia]
>This has been my experience when being the casino and in their bars.
>Not often I admit but there hasn't been any major issues with staff or
>other patrons. I have been in various casinos playing those dreadful
>poker machines that have been close to or near the bars. The only time
>I was ever uncomfortable was at Paris or Venice or somewhere and this
>really loud Mid western lady, obviously half to being unconsciously
>drunk was talking (yelling, screaming) at high volume with her friends
>at the bar as well as nearly everyone that passed by. I was worried she
>might want to come say Hello to the poker machine players but she just
>disappeared...as they do!
Yeah, those from the Midwest can be sooooooo obnoxious! :)
>Even late at night no one seemed to care when we were at that bar in
>the San Remo. I do think that meeting in bar/ cocktail area is LESS
>conspicuous than a group of us standing round waiting to go into a show
>like we did at MGM...IMHO.
I don't think anybody was paying any attention in the bar, nor to I
think anybody really did so when we were lined up at the showroom. Ditto
when we were playing in their casino, although we weren't all in one
group then.
>>>Newcomers to DLV might find such an activity nerve-wracking -- casino
>>>marches and high visibility bars -- but with many in the DLV crowd
>>>experienced and repeaters from previous years, some might enjoy popping
>>>into new places nightly for pre-dinner drinks and socializing.
>Fence Sitting comments by Annie - Deleted . . . .
Catty comments by Michelle - Deleted . . . . :)
>>>Right now I only see maybe Weds and Thurs as viable with the most
>>>people in attendance as Friday I should be able to arrange cocktails at
>>>Carluccio's before dinner. By Saturday everybody should know most of
>>>the others anyway.
>>I think that a dinner at Carluccios, preceded by cocktails, is an
>>excellent idea, which would segue into an Annual Mixer type thing over
>>at Goodtimes. This is a good example of coordinating venues to reduce
>>the transportation issues.
>I agree with this. As I have said I think we do need to co-ordinate
>locations and minimise transport being venues as much as possible. This
>would work well with suggestion below, for the Friday evening,
>presumably.
I'm kind of assuming Friday as well for this.
>>>I don't know the places you mentioned. I know that the semi-circular
>>>sit-down bar by the Riviera box office (I think this is called the Le
[bobbitt]
>>They tell me (the ubiquitous "they") that the Riviera has closed one of
>>its casino-area bars to make a small showroom for yet another show. I
>I think this is the same one I'm referring to and I doubt its location
>would be used for a new show room. Actually its quite easy to get to
>from the front of the hotel with just a short walk from the main doors
>although it would be classed as trek from the back of beyond, near the
>convention centre parking buildings! :-)
>>>Question: Is Happy Hour an alternative track to dinner or is it
>>>something that starts really, really early?
>Personal choice as to being the activity or the prelude and the start
>of fun evening! I suspect however, where we have major pigging out
>affair (Hamburger Marys, Carluccios, etc, etc) that we should consider
>their bars for the early meeting location.
This would again avoid a move.
>More collected comments bound to be deleted by moderator....
[deletia maxima]
>>>Since we don't have one designated hotel, any "Happy Hour" at a hotel
>>>will involve driving for most. Personally, I like the idea (was that
>>>Leah's idea?) of having it at the same place every day. Less
>>>confusion. Might make sense to have a special one before a major
>>>show at the location of the show.
>>It may be the case that there will be difficult choices for many people,
>>and those who, for example, want a few hours of downtime, may have to
>>skip happy hour or dinner. Those who linger at happy hour may find
>>themselves late for, or skipping dinner.
. . . . .
Closets etc:
>>If it were our purpose to provide a closet, we wouldn't even be mucking
>>around with Flex and Goodtimes, we would rent a block of meeting rooms
[cut-paste]
>>I don't see our choice of such places as Flex and Goodtimes as closets,
>>but as optimal selections when considering many factors such as the
[snip]
>>Yes, I've at times gone to Keys, Goodtimes, and Flex by choice at times
>>other than DLV, when I could have gone elsewhere and felt just as safe.
[whack]
>My point was/is/will be that there is a significant difference between
>FLEX and GOODTIMES and the Piano Bar beside the Reception area in the
>Bellagio. The big CD experience of the first two is actually getting
>there. Once there it is secluded and the people there probably expect
>to see a few of us TGers from time to time. Well they'll certainly be
>used after the DLV week anyway!!!
>And...to repeat an previously made point... I think these places are OK
>for what we use them for... Welcome drink night and last night sobbies
>at Flex and the Annual get together and photo session etc, etc.
>No body is saying we should not go to these places or that individuals
>shouldn't go there if they wish to.
>>I think it's agreed that we want some kind of a regular happy hour type
>>get-together as well as a regular brunch/lunch type thing. What we don't
>>appear to agree on are:
[deletia media]
>For a fence sitter (or hopper as you would probably prefer), which is a
>Good Thing for a list moderator to be, you do come up with some unique
>thoughts from time to time. The four issues succinctly point of the
>differences we have regarding this topic.
I really don't have strong opinions on this. I'm prepared to totally go
with the flow. I'll probably sit on the fence and stay there.
>1. Consistency or variety: Yes...and Yes
>2. Small group or large group focus? Small...and Large
>3. Mainstream or isolated: Yes and Yes
>4. Location and convenience: Yes and Yes
>Yep I agree with them all! <I guess I should be careful about who I
>call a fence sitter!>
>So....
>Seems to me that for the Cocktail / Happy hour, the week (assuming a
>Tuesday? Start) should be in to two phases. It seemed to me that the
>more experienced, previous attendee DLVers arrived early in the week
>and stayed for the full journey. So may on Tuesday, Wednesday and even
>Thursday we look at using a Casino bar. I think the same one and at
>about the same time. For Thursday (poss) Friday and even Saturday we
>moved to a more (dear I say it) secluded location such as the LV
>Lounge.
>The same could apply to to the Brunch with Tuesday, Wednesday and
>Thursday being at more upmarket locations such as the Bellagio buffet,
>some of the various cafes in the casinos and so on. Later in the week,
>especially with the pressure of other activities building we either
>skip this or move to more (eck...again) secluded, protected, closeted
>(take choice of location description) venue.
Uh, what closeted location serves breakfast?
>>Of the two (happy hour and brunch) I see brunch as being the more
>>variable, and being dependent on when people rise, get ready, and
>>their state of mind when they do rise. I see a time of 11:00am being
>>optimal, but not good for everybody.
[---8<---]
>Think 11:00 might be a little early and it may be better for a 12:00 or
>even 1:00pm start.
>>I personally (think I) would prefer variety in locations for happy
>>hour, but I somehow get the feeling they would be better attended if
>>at a single location.
>I think one location or two if you look at the suggestion above, would
>be better. Especially for the nervous attendee who having turned up
>once will probably feel safer returning....unless something really BAD
>happens.
>>>I have one option and I will be willing to coordinate it if it is
>>>adopted and that would be to charge everyone $3-5 when they pick up
>>>their nametags ( I would be there....not trying to put the collection
>>>on anyone else....<g>) which will go to reserving a private room for an
>>>hour or two cash bar say, at the Sahara, maybe for 2 or 3 nights.
[--->8---]
>>(As you would probably figure <g>) I have mixed feelings on this. I
>>would prefer that our activities not be sequestered from the public,
>Another Fence sitting comment ....
>At the grave risk of being grouped as a Fence sitter as well... I
>agree!
I agree.
> I'm not exactly jumping up and down at the idea of renting a private
> room for the happy hour thing. I also agree that some of our people
[clip]
>I think there is merit in the second part of this suggestion. A pool, a
>bar, and group of Cders. Should work well. Lots of people to ogle at
>us. I guess it depends on where and how secluded or public the location
>will be but sounds like something that could be pursued....IMHO. I
>would suggest that this is better than a room simply for the reasons of
>access to the room (reminding everyone of the access problems
>associated with sleep over).
>There are a number of the hotels that have large expansive pool areas
>that might work for this.
>The Tropicana springs to mind, with its large grassy areas, secluded
>from the pool in some places. I'm sure there are others. The NYNY would
>probably be less successful given the small size of its pool area for
>example. I noticed that generally the pool areas were deserted in the
>middle of the week but packed on weekends.
>Other Comments of a dubious nature:
>>>2. on the subject of casino bars, our group at IP, (5 TGs dressed and
>>>1 gg) gathered nightly around 5 p.m. at the bar at the front of the
>I take it the gg wasn't dressed...which makes this story even more
>remarkable!
HEY! That's *MY* joke! :)
>>LOL ... If our schedule fills up the way it may, eating and breathing
>>may become alternate track items. :)
>I draw the line at breathing! :-)
>>>Maybe we can get Budweiser to be the Official Beer of DLV too? <g>
>>Seriously, around here, anyway, A-Busch markets to the GLBT audience,
>>with Miller and Heineken jumping on the bandwagon as well.
>Wouldn't Galliano be a better choice of sponsor? :-)
No comment! :)
>>>Thoughts?
>None to speak of!
Yeah, right!
>> Hi,
>
> G'day :)
>In actual fact, they don't say that much in NZ. Its an Australian
>thing. Probably something to do with their convict background
><meowwwwwww.....>
I could have said "Good Day, eh." {ducking and running!}
Fos-tahs, aws-trail-yan f'beh!
>And on that note this pussy cat is out of here!
Woem!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Michelle (NV) writes:
>Just a couple of things,
>One I find it hard to believe that there were people who didn't feel
>they got to socialize enough. My first night at Flex I was just
>jumping from one conversation to the next, reacquainting myself with
>some girls and meeting lots of new girls.
I don't think it's that people felt deprived of it, I think it's that
they liked it so much, they want more of it.
>I like the idea of different venues on different days for the happy
>hour.
Ok {mark} one for different venues.
>I agree with the LVL as being one of these.
And {mark} one vote for the LVL.
>One idea, I don't know how many girls are into sci-fi , but I really
>enjoyed the Star Trek Experience at The Hilton the three times I've
>gone, not to mention the great food at Quarks. Is there any interest
>in doing somethng like this.
I'm sure there would be. I did this in 2001 with Densie and Tony,
and D&T did it again this year.
This is already on the list. All it will really take is for somebody
to give a date and a time and it will happen.
I would suggest a mid-week day, such as Wednesday or Thursday, which
will avoid crowds and kids.
>Another idea- my roomate and I once went mini golfing while dressed.
I suppose it would be better than going mini golfing while nude. :)
Ok, ok. I've had my go with that for the 2002-2003 season. :)
>These two ideas would mix in the real world- although at the Hilton its
>not so different as there are also people dressed as Klingons and
>Ferengi.
Ok, I'll get this on the proposed list too.
>Looks like you found your volunteer to do the snailmail and telephone.
>It would be a shame to do away with em.
Thanks. I'll contact you as to the particulars on this. I don't
anticipate a huge need, but every so often we do get somebody who is
serious about coming, but really does not have any convenient net
access. I envision any need for this coming after the first of the
year. We did have one legitimate case of this last year.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Lounges and limo:
Kate writes:
>Social hours. From the comments on this subject I see most or all of
>the girls are of the experienced variety.
Most of the volunteers are indeed veterans, although I know of one who
had her first public appearance in 2000 and another who made her first
public debut in 2001.
>I attended DLV for the first time this year and I am less than a year
>into my femme experiences so I am glad I enlisted in the ranks of the
>DLV org, as I can help by giving a different slant on things.. I don't
>see too many of us Newbie's (not a big fan of that word) making
>suggestions which is a shame.
I welcome the input from the newly-out. I'm glad we have that point
of view represented.
>From my point of view the LV lounge would be an easier place to get
>started early evening with a view to stepping up to real world lounges
>with the help of the more relaxed ladies who could possibly "drag" (no
>pun intended.. Well maybe just a little) me out to a casino bar where
>although I am not as passable as I would like to be, I could do some
>serious stepping out so to speak!
>I like the idea of the limo tour and look forward to doing it next
>year. but as someone said already the pick up place is very very
>public. So it would be a huge step for someone like me to get through
>the MGM from the parking to the main entrance. I am quite determined to
>do this and I will find a way to be there, but I am sure from the newer
>ladies point of view it may be too big a step and they may avoid it for
>this reason which is a shame as it looks like a lot of fun. I hope this
>has not sounded too negative and will be a help and not a hindrance
>when deciding on the final concrete plans for 2003.
No it's not negative, it's a valid point of view.
Although the limo tour is one of the most popular activities we have,
yes, the pick-up and drop-off will be public and will be a concern for
some. We have to realize that when a t* group of that size appears in
public, the group will be noticed. Tautology. Pope is Catholic. Yes,
some may shy away from such an activity for this reason. There is also
the option of boymode for those who are still a bit shy, but that
appears to be about as popular as ham and Swiss in a Kosher deli. :)
Just as DLV2003 will not be a rewind-replay of DLV2002, the next limo
tour will not be a rerun. There will most likely be a different pickup
point and a different itinerary, set mostly by those who volunteer to
make the 2003 limo tour happen. If they want to consider this when
selecting the pickup/drop locations, then they can do so.
{stuck CD mode} We don't provide a "safe place to dress", but we do need
to consider everybody's skill level and comfort level. (No, Michelle,
I'm not fence-sitting, I feel strongly about both points.) :) In the
case of the limo tour, we've always had a good turnout, so I would say
that for most of the people present, the circumstances were ok.
I think the usual sisterly support and encouragement can help out quite
a bit here, for those who may still be a but uneasy.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Bars and such:
Yvonne writes:
>Hi Annie!
Hewwo :)
>>Another approach might be to do various locations on various days,
>>casino bar one day, LVL the next, another the next, and see which ones
>>work and which ones do not.
>I kinda like that idea!
>A sorta 'happy-hour' bar-hopping tour, that could be done on one or
>several nights, which would happen either before (late afternoon) or
>after DLV main-line events (late-evening). We meet at a group and go to
>one or two bars a day or do them all in one night.
We've had bar tours or pub crawls or whatever you want to call them in
the past. Only downside is that people tend to get very stupid on them. :)
>If we can get the bars to give our group a discount on drinks while
>we're there would be good.
This would take some legwork and coordination on our part.
For a similar pub crawl for another group in 1997, several bars were
willing to do a freebee or two-fer thing IFF we would take the people to
their bar and leave them there. They were not too warm to the idea of a
freebee when the group would be leaving to go to one of their
competitors.
>Another idea along with that, for those that do this bar-hopping, is to
>create a special blouse or femme type cotton/polyester top (ie
>sleeveless v-neck shirt or peasant type top or something else) that has
>the DLV 2003 logo on it, along with the bar names or logo of the
>participating bars nicely printed somewhere on it.
>It would be worn by DLVers on the bar tour, mainly for the bars and
>others to recognize those wearing it, that they are entitled to a
>discount on drinks,and also free shirt advertising of their bar, and
>also incorporate the offical DLV logo, year, and may be the phrase for
>that year. The bartender can sign/mark next to their respected
>logo.name on top indicating that person was there and has had their
>discounted beverage of choice.
>At the end, the DLVer will then have a nice 'memoir' DLV top, and of
>the bars she went to or may not have gone to, by the marks next to the
>bar logo/name, whether she remembers going to it or not, or how for
>that matter... how she got back to the hotel. The bars would get some
>advertisement by the DLV attendee wearing the shirt.
>A cost would be probably involved (ie printing design on the
>blouse/shirt and purchasing of the blouse or top) so there would have
>to sizing at the time of some sort of pre-payment at sign-up.
>This is just an idea, please don't put me as the volunteer to do this
>at this time. This may require a local LV resident to negotiate the
>discounts and happy hour, someone else to do the printing, and someone
>to get the top in the sizes needed.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It's gonna require a lot of
legwork and possibly some up-front money to get this done. Also remember
that many of our people register shortly before DLV, which may not give
enough lead time for sizing and quantities.
>Another idea is to use Glamour Boutique or Hidden Women or someother
>business venue to help with supplying the blouse/top (and the different
>sizes) for this event, and add their business title to those on the
>shirt (again free advertisement).
>There will also have to be a non-drinking designated driver, considering
>its a bar-hop type event.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
TGs Do Draw Stares:
Tina writes:
>>>Bottom line. Everyone in MGM knew that there was a bunch of TGers at La
>>>Femme and in the hotel that night. You would have had to be deaf, dumb
>>>and blind ("drunk" works here) not to have noticed. I remember standing
>>>just inside the entrance waiting for the limo tour to start noticing
>>>all the eyes on us. In that quantity in that sort of location I don't
>>>believe you will be anything other than conspicuous.
>Bravo to Michelle for stating it so succinctly. In the context of her
>full comments, I believe she is saying that we simply need to sail on
>through such situations and not let them deter us from getting out in
>public and having fun.
>>This is quite true. Whenever you have any sizeable group of t* people,
>>the group will be noticed. Really nothing we can do about it.
>We always have and we always will. Coming to DLV means you accept that
>and can handle it. Yes, it can be nerve wracking during the moment
>itself, but that panic generally passes quickly.
>Besides, many of us really dress up for DLV events, particularly for
>the shows, and we generally dress nicer (better / splashier / fancier
>/ prettier) than 99% of the GGs in attendance at those shows. Even
>when traveling singly through a casino, we will often draw a 2nd look
>just because we're dressed up.
Kinda reminds me of the old Hee-Haw skit ...
Patient: Hey Doc, it hurts when I do this. {contortive arm flapping}
Doc: {SLAP!} Then DON'T DO THAT!
DLV'er: Hey Annie, they stare at me when I do this. {prom dress/breakfast}
Annie: Then DON'T DO THAT!
But seriously, collectively, there is no way the group cannot draw
attention. I don't think anybody disagrees. We live with it.
Individually, however, everybody must make a choice, depending on things
like personal style, likes and dislikes, the desire to blend in and the
desire to stand out. Some like to turn heads, for better or worse, and
others prefer to be, as the song goes, just another chick in the mall.
I will commend the DLV 2002 people for doing a great job of dressing
with time, place, and circumstance in mind. Several times I had to look
closely (and still didn't know for sure) to tell if somebody was one of
us or not.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Multiple Breakfast Buffet Locations:
>>>Instead of only one central location, what say we just meet at the
>>>Coffee Shop at your own hotel at 11 am? That way anyone who wants to
>>>can enjoy breakfast or lunch, brunch, with whoever else shows up.
>Well if only 10 girls are interested in getting up that early (the
>number we were kicking around in an earlier mailing) and they are split
>over 3 or 4 "official" hotels, then that could get kind of lonesome if
>you are the only bruncher at your hotel.
>>Comments, ladies? (Gentlemen?) This definitely avoids one
>>transportation issue.
>Well actually, it doesn't since many (if not most) of the girls don't
>stay at the "official" DLV hotels. For those girls at the "official"
>hotels, the opportunities for such brunch munching and socializing has
>always existed. I think it would be good to promote the idea of that
>opportunity with one designated spot for the many who stay elsewhere
>(or are local to LV) but might want to stop by.
My interpretation of that suggestion was convenience. Nobody is saying
that you *have* to go to the one at your hotel.
The only way we're gonna find out if this will work is to try it, and
we do have to work out the particulars, but we've got many months to
dedide on the particulars. I think the demand is there, at least the
demand to try it.
>I also definitely think that you do want to list it on the schedule so
>that people (particularly new girls) clearly know about it and would
>have the option of showing up. Word of mouth doesn't work well for
>stuff like this.
Yes, if we agree on brunch and/or happy hour, it will be on the schedule
each and every day in excruciating detail.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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