From: Annie (annie@geekbabe.com)
Date: Wed Jun 05 2002 - 08:54:42 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
This mailing
Annie's notes
Easter
Length and activities
More Boardwalk comments
Another Boardwalk perspective
Skydiving
DVD project
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2003 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
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This mailing:
I'm flushing the queue. This mailing contains everything that has come in
through Tuesday evening.
Some of you may have gotten a stray test message yesterday, the text of
which was a duplicate of the welcome message. Sorry, feel free to
delete.
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Annie's notes:
Here are my preliminary comments and suggestions regarding the various
issues that are on, or will shortly be on the table.
>1. Any final summarizing of DLV 2002. Analysis and discussion of the
>participation survey and verbal comments.
What more can I say? It totally eclipsed all previous DLV's.
Yeah, there were some rough spots, but overall it was the best yet and
was very highly rated in the feedback.
>2. Discussion of the length of DLV. Did we have the length about right,
>do we need it longer, was it too long?
Personally, I think it was about right. If people want to stay longer,
they always have the option of coming early and/or leaving late.
Those who did come early had no problem finding things to do. Ditto with
those staying late.
I'm not opposed to extending DLV, but if we do, I want to be VERY sure
we have volunteers committed to implementing quality activities over
the entire DLV period, including the extension.
>3. Days of the week and timing. Did the Tuesday-Sunday timeframe seem
>to work, or should it be tweaked.
I think it worked fine. There was one note in feedback that it should be
Sunday->Sunday to coincide with the better airfares available in Canada.
In any case, I think ending on the weekend gives us less of a fallout
than ending mid-week did. However, looking at the calendar ahead,
there's no week between Easter and Mothers Day where a Sunday-Sunday
thing will work.
>4. General timeframe of DLV. (IMAO, again, the venue, Las Vegas, and
>the approximate time, spring, should be considered in stone.)
>Networld+Interop is scheduled to run from April 27th (Sunday) thru
>May 2 (Friday), 2003, with the major convention activities happening on
>the 29th, 30th, and May 1. Since several of our people like to do both
>of these on one plane ticket, I suggest that again we schedule DLV to
>run either immediately before or immediately after N+I.
This is one current discussion item.
>5. General activity comments, suggestions, etc. We want to paint in
>broad strokes at this time. We want to discuss what worked, what did
>not work, which activities should be repeated, which activities should
>be ash-canned, what new and exciting activities we can plan, yes, gang,
[bobbitt]
I would like to see a good mix of our proven favorites (such as the
Annual Mixer, golf, and the Limo Tour), some new themes, some new
venues, and yes, some suggestions for totally off-the-wall activities.
I would like to see us have a wide variety, both in activity theme
and in venue.
I would like to continue to exclusively use public facilities for
our activities, as opposed to rented ballrooms, etc.
As for some specifics that I think have possibility (some I've heard
suggested, some my own) ...
* Retro night. 50's - 60's - 70's - 80's (90's?)
* One of the newer "artsy" shows, Blue Man Group, O, etc.
* Side trip. Short - medium distance. (Do we try Rhyolite again? :)
* Showgirls Of Magic. I think we can consider this to be our first
officially-adopted activity.
* Bowling (suggested on line a few days ago)
* Vegas Girl Wigs Open House (they want to do this)
* Skydiving (simulated or real-life)
>6. Publicity and promotion. Do the existing methods (web site, T*
>event listings, support group newsletters, etc.) work, should we be
>expanding promotion, maybe?
I think we should continue to use the existing methods, and explore
new options, such as a working relationship with the local LV papers
such as _OUT_ and _Bugle_.
I don't think we have a need for paid advertising, let alone a budget
for it. :)
There's a proposal for a DLV DVD. See below.
>7. Yes, we will, like it or not, have one more iteration of our yearly
>endless-loop topics such as ...
> a. Meeting room. ({sigh})
Looking around at our activities this year, I wondered just what the
heck we would ever use this for. It would have gone empty. We don't need
it, IMAO, of course.
In listening to the feedback, I'm not hearing any call this year for
anything like a "safer" environment, like we did have a call for last
year.
> b. Suggested/recommended/official hotel(s). (ZZZZzzzzz....)
We do have some followup going on with one hotel, but ...
AFAIC, if anybody wants to contact various hotels to see what deals they
can make us, be my guest, or rather I'll be your guest. Please keep in
mind that unless a sugar-mommy magically appears, we will have no front
money for deposits, and we cannot guarantee, contractually, any level of
occupancy or casino action.
Now, a point was made last year, that having two suggested hotels was
confusing, and that this year three was overly confusing. Do we want
to concentrate on suggesting one and only one hotel, or do we want to
continue to suggest multiple properties?
I see advantages to concentrating (familiarity, companionship, ease of
transportation), and advantages to dispersing (variety, discretion,
individual preference).
Comments?
From feedback this year, there were people who were happy at the
Sahara, IP, and Boardwalk, and there were negative comments about all
three.
If we do decide on the one-and-only-one route, I think it should be
reasonably priced, either to the public or through negotiation, and that
if negotiations are made, one make-or-break factor should be that there
are to be no restrictions on the use of the property by our people.
Since DLV, I've heard few cries to limit the recommendations to fewer
properties than we have been. As has been said before, we might want to
add a suggestion of something like the Bellagio for those who want a
more upscale place. As for a downscale place, we've mentioned the garden
rooms at the Palace Station several times for those on a budget. I
certainly don't want to suggest anything like Aztec or Western for our
people, which are about the only ones that much cheaper than Palace
Station.
Comments?
> c. GLBT bars vs. "straight" bars.
I see no reason to quit using the facilities that our people like, such
as Goodtimes, Flex, and now Sasha's. These places are mainstream enough
for those who have been out and about for years, and "safe" enough for
those who are just peeking out of the closet.
I also see no reason not to explore new and different venues, both
alternative and mainstream. RA at the Luxor has been suggested as a
possibility, for example.
>8. This is an issue that has come up this year, and really reflects the
>fact that we're growing more diverse and possibly attracting people who
>are not in tune with what DLV is supposed to be.
[snip]
We need to agree upon some verbiage that outlines what we expect of our
participants, both generally (be a lady or gentleman, whichever you
prefer) and specifically (if you intend on selling yourself, stay the
hell away) that can be used in such places as the FAQ, the registration
screen, and the final mailings.
Comments? Discussion? Ideas? :)
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Easter:
>>I think we're gonna run into some MAJOR bitching if we schedule
>>something, even something clearly optional, over Easter, more so than
>>if we did so on Mothers Day.
>Your not kidding! Easter and the whole week before should be avoided.
>Week after Easter is good, but not before or during.
I agree that Sunday should be avoided. Easter is a very heavy travel
day, especially for flights later in the day, and to an extent the
Monday following Easter is too. However, I don't remember any price
gouging over those times.
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Length and activities:
Leah writes:
>Probably won't matter to me which week Diva is next year but I think
>the earlier the better for weather reasons. We were really lucky this
>year IMO in that regard.
Actually, you do have a good point there. The only year I remember it
being very hot for DLV was 1997, and that was in the middle of the
month of May.
>Of course, none of us may be here by then as The Amazing Kreskin is
>predicting that sometime this week the most prominant UFO sighting ever
>will take place in the Nevada desert near Las Vegas. I wonder if there
>will be bathroom issues on the Mothership??? At least it gives me a
>chance to get a new hat, even if it is made of aluminum foil. <g>
>I don't see any problem if we have to extend next year's schedule by
>another day.....couldn't we just not schedule a daytime activity and
>meet at any of the venues that evening? Might give everyone a chance
>to do some souvenir shopping if they made some promises to do so back
>home or just decompress at the pool after a long and fun week.
>With the possible addition of Girltalk Mag on Weds nite it opens up
>another event for the week anyway.... in the case of this year we would
>have Hamburger Mary's another night. Also, Showgirls sounds like it
>will be moved to a feature event next year so I think any additional
>"Diva Days" will be covered.
I think it's much too early to do any fitting of activities into days or
timeslots this far out. Also we have to consider that things change,
places close, others open, people change, lovers rearrange, etc.
Anyway, let's just take a quick look at what effort would be required
to do the activities, both with the same type of schedule, and with
an extended schedule ...
Our activities can be grouped into two categories, those that are
trivial (organizationally speaking) and those which are nontrivial,
meaning they need at least some effort to pull off, other than telling
people to show up and do it.
The trivial activities from this past DLV included:
1. 5:00pm Welcome Dinner (Milano's)
2. 7:30pm Pre-DLV get-together
3. All day Blond Hair Day
4. 10:00pm Karaoke
5. 7:30pm Annual Mixer
6. 11:30pm Dance Night
7. 12:30pm Mall Crawl
8. 11:30pm Floor show and bar/club tour (Sasha's)
9. 5:30pm Buffet dinner
10. 7:30pm Farewell Get-together
These following items needed some organization and planning, and in most
cases one (or more) of us planned or adopted them and did the necessary
hoop-jumps to make them happen.
1. 1:00pm Hidden Woman Open House
2. 2:00pm Wig styling
3. 7:30pm Dinner and Welcome celebration
4. 11:00pm Slumber Party (and swap meet)
5. 8:00am Air tours
6. 1:00pm Glamour Boutique Open House
7. -or- Swimming party
8. 7:00pm Boardwalk reception
9. 8:30pm LaFemme (production show)
10. After Limo tour
11. 10:00am Golf
12. 12:00n SO's get-together (SO's only, please)
13. 1:00pm SBS Social
14. 5:30pm Dinner, with entertainment
15. 2:00pm Makeup demo (session 1)
16. 9:00pm La Cage (Frank Marino)
17. 1:30pm Side trip, Valley of Fire
18. 3:15pm -or- English High Tea
That's 18 nontrivial activities over 6 days, or an average of 3 per day.
Other things I think we need to consider are volunteer load, burnout
factor, and the steamroller effect.
If we are to expand one day, that means about 21 nontrivial activities
will have to be planned. Two days, about 24 such activities.
I don't think it's fair to ask those who have done more than has been
asked to do still more.
I'm not opposed to extending a day, but before we do, I would like to
see people step forward and say "I will commit to coordinating one
nontrivial activity" and I don't mean just you, me, Mindy, and those who
have done multiple activities already.
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More Boardwalk comments:
Cat writes:
>I was going to just let this thing with the Boardwalk pass without
>comment. However, since you are sending exerpts from the listings to
>them, I want to be sure all of past experiences are reflected.
>>> .. the casion hostess in charge of
>>>our group quoted her best rate as of the date of an inquiry.
>My experience with the hostess (Denise) was not handled professionally
>by her in my opinion. I have dealt with both major properties and
>smaller private properties in regards to large functions as well as a
>few rooms in my life time. I rate the experience with the Boardwalk
>as one of the most one-sided I have ever had.
>I received emails and spoke to Denise personally on the telephone. I
>had requested the best hard rates the hotel would give and even
>mentioned that I did not expect them to meet the rates I could get at
>the Sahara. In the email I received the standard promo material about
>their Player's Club and a link to a website. The website did not work
>and could not be accessed.
FYI, I did have trouble with their web site as well.
>We were able to make telephone contact later. She stated she had just
>redone the web site and would send me a good link so I could go to it.
>This was going to be done via email the next afternoon and she would
>also include any additional room rate information she might have. In
>my telephone conversation with her, she kept pushing to sign up for
>their Player's Club, as though this was a fantastic selling point.
>In asking about the rates, she mentioned that she had to consult with
>the General Manager before anything could be changed. I made it very
>clear that in my opinion most of our attendees would not even consider
>going there unless some room rates could be hard and close to the rates
>to the properties we were already suggesting to the group. Not once
>did she ever tell me what the best rate was she had at the time. I
>have yet to receive any type of information after our telephone
>conversation.
>I was trying very hard to be able to stay there. Yet the impression I
>got was that the only thing Boardwalk wanted to do was make sure we got
>Player's Cards. It is my impression also that the General Manager is
>not easy to deal with and everything has to go through him.
If I may digress for a few lines, and I think much of this I've already
mentioned to Cat off line ... In a previous life I've worked in hotels,
not casino-hotels, but one highrise type and two complexes. In all three
cases, the GM was ultimately responsible for the P&L of the property,
and did set the day-to-day rates at which rooms (and other services)
were to be sold. However, in all three cases the GM did delegate a
certain amount of authority to such people as the sales staff, the
reservations staff, the duty managers, and even the desk staff to vary
the rates to a certain extent to keep the places full, and to use rates
as a negotiating point when dealing with clients.
Various GM's do have various management styles, and some do not like to
delegate such authority. That is their option. They must, of course,
accept the responsibility of failing to do so.
I know that in some cases in today's Las Vegas, some of this authority
is indeed delegated. A good example is when Margeth checked in to the IP
a few years back. Margeth reserved weeks in advance at a rate that was
higher than what Densie, who walked in cold, paid. Margeth mentioned
this to the guy at the desk (I watched it, all three of us were there)
and the desk guy didn't even blink an eye, he picked up his pen, crossed
out the old rate, and marked in the new rate.
The ball is now in the court of the powers.that.be at the Boardwalk. If
they choose (by whatever internal means they use) to give us black and
white rates that are in the same ballpark as the others, they will get a
good number of our people. If they do not, they will not. It's their
call. How badly do they want our business?
>If the above is true concerning the GM, then why are we spending the
>effort to go through a contact that does not have authority to make
>decisions?
We have to because we are a small client. The GM of a property is seldom
involved in pre-sales efforts except in cases of the largest and most
lucrative clients.
>As far as use of the restrooms is concerned, I will not attend any
>place where we are limited to specific restrooms. I will not support
>segregation of any type.
>We are not second class citizens!
Agreed!
>While there were some issues at other hotels, I did not see any posting
>that the staff (including security) of any other hotel had problems
>with us.
They didn't! We're a well-behaved group.
>Mistakes might happen and communications fail to get to all parties
>within an organizaion. However, that is no excuse for the tactics that
>appeared to have been used by the Boardwalk security. Their behavior
>reminds me of the type of police behavior that occurs to minorities to
>this day in some areas.
>My feelings are that this property must show DLV organizers beyond a
>doubt that it wants our business, and more importantly, that it will
>make sure their entire staff treats us with respect. Personally, just
>saying something will not happen again is not enough. I would like to
>see someone in their management apologize to the people who were the
>subjects of treatment that is usually reserved for criminals.
>Anyway, there is my rant for the year.
In an aside conversation, Cat decided to not ask that this be included
in the Boardwalk mailing that went out this morning, but Mindy can pass
this on if she wishes to do so.
>I really enjoyed myself at both of the DLVs I have attended. I have
>gained a tremendous insight into what will make events in our community
>in the future successful. I thank you immensely for your friendship.
>I will be back at DLV next year for sure.
And we look forward to having you back as well.
>I am going to have to drop off the DLV ORG list for next year. There
>is such a great group of people already involved and it sounds like
>many more are volunteering. I know DLV will continue to grow each
>year, if the organizers allow it to. This event is helping to make it
>easier on others in our community to accept themselves and be happy
>with who they are.
>I have accepted the responsibility of handling national fund raising
>for Southern Comfort and am considering chairing SCC 2003. While I
>believe the most beneficial type of event these days is something along
>the venue of DLV, I know that events with instructive seminars is
>still very much needed. If I do decide to accept more responsibility
>for the program at SCC, you can be certain that the social aspect will
>be a major priority. That, coupled with the fact that I have bought a
>business and am working on getting a transformation service in Atlanta
>going, will leave me little time for much else - except my weekend
>promotions to get more of us out into the world.
And in case you get tired of things there ... :)
>I hope that if you are going to be in the Atlanta area any, you will
>let me know. I also hope that I can maybe pick you brain for ideas
>from time to time.
I sure will. I do get to the Atlanta area every so often and I know
where you are.
>Thanks for your friendship and for your "sane" outlook for our
>community.
You're very welcome, and thanks for being part of DLV 2002.
>OH! Keep the blonde hair! You looked great on Saturday night.
Thanks. {blush} It is different, but I'm planning to try that again. :)
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Another Boardwalk perspective:
>>>talking to a cabbie on the way to the Boardwalk reception that knew
>>>quite alot about what was going on with Strip properties and he
>>>informed us that the Boardwalk, amongst 2 other older Strip
>>>properties, are scheduled for demolition in 2004.
>You can use this if you want, but don't think you have to. Annie,
>what about this angle? If they WANT to close the place down, what
>better reason then to keep the room prices sky high and let the
>gamblers go elsewhere. They can then show it's not profitible and
>none of their board directors will fight them for closing it. Just
>an off the wall observation.
Different perspective, I admit. I don't know.
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Skydiving:
Densie writes:
>I wanna propose skydiving again this year.
Ok, consider it on the list.
>Someone (was it Cat?) was interested in it but didn't let me know in
>time. If you want to skydive, please stand up and be counted; after
>all, just because no one complains doesn't mean that all parachutes are
>perfect.
I'm the biggest chickensh*t when it comes to planes, but I'll photograph
from the ground if I can.
>What the hell am I saying anyway? It's getting late.
You're saying you wanna propose skydiving again this year.
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DVD project:
This received some minor discussion when it first came in. Since Vicki
is now a member of this list, perhaps she could give us some detail on
what she has in mind.
Questions/issues raised so far are:
1. What would this do that a similar web-based multimedia thing would not?
2. How would this be distributed? Who would control distribution?
3. Music? Public-domain? Royalty-free? Royalty-paid (who pays?)
4. Photos of persons. Opt-in? Opt-out?
. . . . .
Vicki writes:
>I would like to volunteer to produce a DVD of this year's DLV event.
>The DLV 2002 DVD can be used to promote next year's event or give
>newbes an idea of the fun and friendship they can have at a DLV event.
>The DVD can include still photographs, video and music. The disk could
>be played on any DVD player and on any computer with the capability to
>read DVD's.
>Why am I offering to do this? I think it would be great to have the DLV
>event documented on a DVD. Oh don't get me wrong I love the Web site
>and find it very informative and user friendly, but the DVD will offer
>an additional way to learn about DLV. Also I am just learning to
>produce DVD's, I just did a family one that turned out great, and this
>would be an ideal project for me to hone my skills on.
>I know this must be an odd volunteer idea but I think it would be
>beneficial for all concerned, the T-Girl community, DLV, and yes, me. I
>don't do this for a living, its not a business, I just think it would
>be fun to produce this DVD.
>Sooo what do you think?
Comments?
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