Subject: dlvorg Mindy's b'day, schedule, DVD ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Mon Jun 03 2002 - 07:45:17 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Monday, 8pm, be there
Tina writes
Boardwalk situation
Cindy writes
DVD stuff
Boardwalk comments
Michelle writes
Administrivia
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Monday, 8pm, be there:
>if you post anything sunday night let any local gals know that the
>"mindy's TG b-day bash" is monday at 8 pm at shasha's
This will probably go out Monday morning, but I will put this up front.
Happy B'day, Mindy. :)
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Tina writes:
>DLV 03 Scheduling Options:
>Great analysis.
Thanks {blush} :)
>I've added some personal reaction thoughts, hope to see comments from
>others. I used to think that June was too early to start talking about
>the dates, but I haven't thought that for years now. Given our
>increasing attendance numbers, setting the dates far in advance is
>just practical. And with this year's hurdles, the extra discussion
>time is really needed.
>>I see a number of options, including:
<snip>
>>Tuesday, April 22 thru Sunday, April 27. This puts it squarely
>>between Easter and N+I.
>Works for me personally. I would anticipate flying out on Monday
>morning (would have to make those airlines reservations early, Monday
>after Easter is a very heavy travel day). We could even do something
>unofficial on Monday night for early arrivals, kind of like we did
>Showgirls this year. Of course, Monday is also karaoke night, so any
>sane and reasonable person is always taken care of. :-)
If I can, I'm always going to fly out (at least) one day early.
>Also, this schedule would generally track the format we did in 2002, so
>it would be easy to see how it would work. Also easy to see how people
>who stay on into N+I (non-conference people) could keep right on
>partying until their adrenaline gives out, assuming they can afford the
>hotel rate jump.
Actually the Sahara did not have a rate jump for N+I this year. The
only one I know of that did was the LV Hilton. Even the Riviera, which
traditionally gets lots of N+I business, and even overflow classroom
and lecture space, apparently did not gouge this year for N+I.
>And ending on the weekend just makes the most sense winding up with a
>big bang.
I tend to agree.
>>3. Tuesday, April 29 thru Sunday, May 4. This runs concurrently with
>N+I and will lock me out of some or all of DLV.
>This won't work, IMHO. DLV without Annie may have to happen someday,
>but we don't need to rush it.
Thanks, Tina. {blush}
>4. Thursday, May 1 thru Tuesday, May 6, or any of several variations
>on this theme. The last true "convention" day of N+I is Thursday, so a
[deletia]
>A Thursday start reminds me of the early years of DLV. How nostalgic.
>:-)
:)
>Feedback every years says that people want more social time where they
>can just sit and chat. Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday seem to be the
>nights that have more of that because they are the "lighter" nights
>with less people when DLV ordinarily cranks up, and we're generally at
>less "busy" venues with less organized activities.
>In years past, so many leave after the weekend, that the Monday ending
>nights have always been anticlimactic (or so I hear, since I've only
>made it to one Monday closing night). Wonder how many girls will stay
>over a long week AFTER a big weekend? With our increased numbers,
>maybe enough, don't know for sure.
Two comments here. In 2000, yes, we had a significant drop-off on Monday,
but in 2001 we had a good crowd on Monday. What caused people to scatter
to the winds was when they cranked up the music (and the drink prices)
at the LV Lounge.
Also, I'm also hearing a call for more strictly social time, and for the
second year, I'm hearing disappointment that there was none on Saturday.
. . . . .
>Restrooms at Boardwalk:
>>I'm supposed to have din-din this coming week with The Other Annie, so
>>I am sure the topic will come up, even though my feeling is she wants
[c-p]
>>Speaking freely, she is probably the LAST one of us that a smart casino
>>would want to p*ss off, since she does more table action than most of
>>us put together.
>If we need to take the spotlight off of Annie Annatoma, feel free to
>put it on me if Boardwalk needs an example of a customer that they've
>offended.
>As I've related before, I arrived just after she'd been denied use of
>the facilities and I put myself unwittingly right into the middle of
>the situation by bouncing right into the ladies room before I'd heard
>about her problems. When I came out, I was clearly tailed by security.
>Nothing came of it, and it wasn't anything sinister, but I won't go
>back to Boardwalk without a clear understanding that we won't have
>problems there next year.
>And I won't sit by quietly and see Boardwalk recommended for next year
>without the right to full use of all their restroom facilities. I've
>heard Mindy's clear explanation of what happened this year and her
>plan to address it for the future, and I look forward to hearing the
>results of her conversations with Boardwalk management over the coming
>months. I sincerely hope something can be worked out for the reasons
>I've written previously about the advantages for DLV of having a
>long-term relationship with a smaller casino like Boardwalk.
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Boardwalk situation:
>i had a meeting with denese today.. she requests that you send her
>copies of all the feed back re the boardwalk problems. delete names.
>she and i agree that we need to meet with management to resolve the
>issues as she had some impressive spending figures to support the need
>to make use of the boardwalk by T clients much easier.
>our bar figures on thurs alone make us a serious issue.
Does this mean we're considered serious drinkers? :)
>she also has some major concerns about the attitude of the security
>dept and will be haveing a major talk with them in the next day or so.
>she is already thinking about special offers and facilities for the
>diva folks next year. she didn't say so but i get the impression that
>on a spending basis we were one of the strongest groups she has gotten
>into the hotel in the last year..
One thing I think we should emphasize is that many of the Boardwalk's
civilian clients will stay at the Boardwalk but "graze" to the other
places in the area. Many of our people, however, will tend to stay in
a place where they know they're welcome. If the Boardwalk lets them
know, by word and by action, that they are welcome to play en femme,
many of them are gonna stay put.
>please work with us on this as both deniese and i would like to make
>the boardwalk see the light..
Ok, in my spare time today I'll collect all of the traffic and feedback
regarding this. I'll post a copy in tomorrow's mailing, and send it to
Denise if there are no objections from the group here.
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Cindy writes:
>After reading about possible dates for next year I feel I must ask,
>what the h*ll is a N+I??
Networld+Interop Las Vegas. It's the combination of two shows that has
become the world's largest networking convention and exposition.
>How many girls know or care,and how many repeat attenders are actually
>involved with this?
Me for one. Other than that, all (if not, it's somebody I'm unaware of)
of our non-USA overseas attendees came to DLV as a result of attending
N+I.
>I know everybody has there reasons why a date is good or bad.
>Personally dates that are at month ends beginnings are hard on me and
>I'm sure others,who have goals to meet and paper work to shuffe. Not
>trying to start a fight just throwing out my observation.
I'm not trying to fight back, but I want you and the others to be aware
that we have one long-time and highly-valued participant (and organizer)
who most likely will not be able to attend next year's DLV unless she is
able to fly overseas to both N+I and DLV on one plane ticket. We also
have another potential returnee from Switzerland who is anticipating
doing the same.
I know I'm being a bit selfish here, but I'll be extremely disappointed
if this group makes serious motions that would lock out a very active
and very valued person.
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DVD stuff:
I'm grouping a few responses to this in one item here.
Vicki will be joining this list later this week when I add in those who
answered the CFV. Let's address this with her then and have her tell us
exactly what she has in mind.
We can discuss this further and make some decisions.
. . . . .
>>>I would like to volunteer to produce a DVD of this year's DLV event.
>I have some video footage that I could donate, and I would like to get a
>copy of the DVD.
. . . . .
>>>I think it is a bad idea. As we all know, there are some sisters that
>>>attended that did not want their pics posted.
>My vote is no too! I don't see any real purpose and this would be easy
>to loose control of.
. . . . .
>>>I think it is a bad idea. As we all know, there are some sisters that
>>>attended that did not want their pics posted.
>Speaking personally, I don't have a problem with it, if enough
>restrictions were put on it. We don't have much in the way of
>publicity needs right now. A DVD like that might have been handy to
>show to LV {Out} when we were trying to explain DLV to them for
>their proposed newspaper article. I do agree that it sounds like a
>lot of work for very little payback, but artistic efforts often are.
>In fact, the fizzled LV {Out} article suggests a start for the type
>of guidelines that we might set:
>- you only appear on the DVD if you opt in specifically (no general
>use of DLV Web content)
>- no personal contact info (e-mail addresses, etc.) on the DVD. Only
>the general DLV URL.
>DLV is a private function, but a lot of it occurs in public places
>(large casinos, hotel lobbies, etc.) where anybody (press, documentary
>film makers, etc.) that wants to can take pictures of us. I think we
>should cooperate with publicity requests so that we can affect the
>process of how it occurs.
>>>A DVD, well, you can imagine where that may go in the wrong
>>>hands.
>I would argue that a DVD is no different a storage medium than server
>files on the Web. If somebody wants a copy of my DLV pictures,
>assuming they didn't already find my personal Web site, they can just
>copy it from the DLV site to their PC and then burn their own DVD.
>Restricting production of this DVD isn't adding any protection
>whatsoever. The only reason our pictures are "safe" out on the Web is
>that nobody gives a damn about us.
As an aside, yes, we're flying under the radar on the web in most cases,
but not all. A note recently came in to the webmaster of geekbabe.com
asking for help getting a particular photo on one user's page killed.
Seems like a cow-orker of the person in the photo stumbled onto it and
was making an uncomfortable situation. I'm also aware of a case where
one of our IRC people was confronted by a customer regarding a photo
on a personal TG website.
It's very rare, but these incidents do happen.
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Boardwalk comments:
>I was also one that experienced problems with security at the
>Boardwalk, and may have talked to you about it.
>I did talk to Mindy and know about the miscommunications. I can also
>understand the viewpoint of security, as far as the possiblility of a
>GG complaining about CDers in the womens bathroom, and the desire to
>prevent it or any kind of confrontation with other guests or staff. BUT
>I can see our viewpoint also.
>If they based what happend to me on just Aiko and I in there, I will
>say that Aiko was very passable that night, and I didn't think I was
>*that* readable in a business suit... maybe it was me that the guards
>read.
>BUT these are 'security' guards that SHOULD know how to communicate
>with continuing shifts on ongoing matters and our group staying
>there.... but yeah I know, mistakes happen.
>From my perspective, this is what occured.
>I didn't attend the Boardwalk Open House reception, therefore I didn't
>know about the restrictive 2nd floor bathroom requirement, nor of the
>earlier incident.
>I arrived at the Boardwalk to immediately go to the MGM La Femme show
>(Annie gave me a ride, and I was almost late). Debbie Sage, my driver,
>who parked at the Boardwalk, wasn't going to go to the show, and stayed
>for the reception. She later joined us for the Limo tour at the MGM.
>After the show, the Limo tour followed, and at the end of the Limo
>tour, I returned with Debbie to the Boardwalk, along with Aiko,
>Monique, and Rhianna in a limo. On the way to the Boardwalk, we were
>discussing the possiblity of going somewhere to eat. Rhianna wasn't
>feeling well, and both her and Monique sat on a bench outside the
>casino. Everyone else was gone! Aiko went to go check if the cafeteria
>in the casino was open.
>Debbie and I followed Aiko (who was ahead of us). Debbie needed to go
>to the Ladies room, and said she'll go use the 2nd floor room, and I
>said I would follow Aiko. Aiko and I walked further and found the
>cafeteria closed. I also saw Rosa and another DLVer (cant remember her
>name right now) gambling and enjoying themselves in the casino and they
>saw me and gave glancing eye recognition. Aiko decided to go to the
>ladies room. I was going to wait for Debbie, but decided to also go to
>the ladies room, and was about 30 sec behind Aiko.
>Both of us entered the 1st floor casino ladies room. No one was at the
>door, and when I entered, I remembered being glad the restroom was
>empty (no gg walking around), but then I saw that there was a cleaning
>lady cleaning the stalls. I took one stall that was just cleaned (she
>was cleaning several at one time), and was quiet and lady like in my
>mannerism, as best as possible, sat down and did my business. I came
>out of the stall, and Aiko and I exchanged glances at the mirror as she
>was going out of the room. I followed a few seconds later.
>Aiko waited at some slot machines located near the restrooms, with her
>back facing the restrooms. I joined her and talked with her as far as
>where we wanted to go eat. I was standing and facing the restrooms
>while I talked to her. As I was talking to her, a security guard walk
>and stood near the entrance to the restrooms.
>Debbie joined us, and a few minutes later Larua and Roselinn joined us,
>and both Laura and Roselinn went to the same casino restroom. Aiko,
>Debbie, and I continued to discuss where to eat, and a few minutes
>later a second security guard arrived, talked on the radio, and started
>talking to the the 1st guard. He then pointed towards us as he talked
>to the second guard. The second guard nodded his head up and down as in
>agreeing to something. I then pointed this out to both Debbie and Aiko.
>We were wondering if Monique and Rhianna would join us in going
>somewhere to eat, so I volunteered to check and began to walk back out
>of the casino to where I saw them last. As I past the security desk,
>all of the guards at the desk was staring or looking intently at me,
>some nodding their heads slightly. When I reached the casino door,
>there was another guard at the door, who looked at me, talked on the
>radio and walked away back into the casion (don't know if this was
>related).
>I checked the bench that Monique and Rhianna was on, and both of them
>were gone, so I turned around and went back in, and again, noticed the
>security guards at their desk intently watching me. By the time I
>returned to the group, Larua and Roselinn was out of the restrooms and
>was discussing with Aiko and Debbie where to go eat. As were were
>discussing, the cleaning lady was now having a conversation to the two
>guards, and she was smiling or embarassed, looking and pointing at us,
>and the guards were listening and also looking at us as the cleaning
>lady looked in our direction.
>At this point I pointed this out the rest of the group.
>The group decided to go to the Sahara to eat. We then split up, each
>to meet at the Sahara, Aiko with her car, Laura and Roselinn with their
>car, and Debbie and I with our car.
>As we walked past the casino and to the door, I guess I was now more
>aware of the guards, and I noticed several of them standing/posted and
>watching us at various stations along the way to the door of the casino.
>Also again, as we passed the security desk, they were definitely
>watching us. Debbie even noticed this when I talked to her about it.
>Debbie and I left the casino, and walked to the parking structure to go
>to our car. As we walked up the ramp to the second level, a guard on a
>golf cart drove close past us, slowed down a bit and was looking at us,
>and talked on the radio. I recognized him as one of the guards that
>was watching us near the security desk, just a few minutes earlier.
>This could be unrelated, but this guard, went up to the second level
>ahead of us, and kept driving around and around, keeping an eye on us
>between the parked cars, (I could see him doing this) as we walked to
>the car, as he went round and around. I constantly could hear the golf
>cart going around as we got to our car. We then drove out. I'm not
>sure if the guard followed our car to the exit.
>I know this matter was cleared by Mindy, as a mis-communication, and
>the apoglizes were made by the admin staff of the casino.
>Nothing was spoken to me by any security guard. Nor was I stopped by
>them.
>But it still leaves with me a feeling of harassment, and it will affect
>me in wanting to go to the Boardwalk.
>For those DLVers that stayed there, they told me that the staff went
>out of the way to make them feel welcomed. Its very inconsistant to
>what I had experienced. I'm glad for them that they had a good time
>there.
>BUT I will keep an open mind and not judge Boardwalk as good or bad, or
>if DLV continues to use this venue. I sincerely hope that this was an
>isolated incident, one to be forgiven and forgotten. I will not hold
>this against them if DLV has events there, but I will be very sensitive
>to it for some time.
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Michelle writes:
>Hi
Hewwo :)
ATM0
>OK
>For those without a calendar:
>17 Apr Thu
>18 Apr Fri Good Friday
>19 Apr Sat
>20 Apr Sun Easter Sunday
>21 Apr Mon
>22 Apr Tue
>23 Apr Wed
>24 Apr Thu
>25 Apr Fri **
>26 Apr Sat
>27 Apr Sun N+I (*)
>28 Apr Mon N+I
>29 Apr Tue N+I
>30 Apr Wed N+I
>01 May Thu N+I
>02 May Fri N+I
>03 May Sat
>04 May Sun
>05 May Mon
>06 May Tue
>07 May Wed
>08 May Thu
>09 May Fri
>10 May Sat
>11 May Sun Mothers Day
>12 May Mon
>13 May Tue
>14 May Wed
>I checked a number of web sites and there seems to be a general
>consensus that Easter Sunday is April 20th. BTW the US Navy presents
>the equation on how to work out the date and another site (name escapes
>me) lists the date for Easter for the next 2 or three centuries!
I, or rather my alter-ego, Dionysia the Timekeeper, actually used to
know the formula for that. IIRC, the first Sunday after the first full
moon after the equinox, or something like that anyway.
Now let's see. 30 days has September, April June and Montana ... :)
<lol>
>Easter Issues to consider:
>Pros:
> - Long weekend? For many for an early DLV start
Uh, no long weekend. Monday after Easter is a work day almost
everywhere. Ditto for Good Friday, even though many employers let people
off to attend services if they want. As you probably heard in the
on-line conversation, some businesses in the south are closed on Good
Friday, but that is intended to be for religious/family reasons.
Schools used to synchronize their spring break to the week before
Easter, but not so much anymore, especially when it occurs this late.
>Cons:
> - Family vacation time
> - Lots of visitors to Las Vegas
> - Air fare, Hotel costs over a holiday weekend
> - Availability of room, cars air seats etc?
Week before Easter used to be the best time to visit LV, pre-Disneyland
that is. The past few times I've been able to get out there over that
period it's been boocoo kids in the MGM/NYNY/Egg-Salad-Bar area with no
crowds at all in the Stardust/Riviera area, except for C**2.
I don't think we'll run into price gouging for air/hotel over those
days.
I think we're gonna run into some MAJOR bitching if we schedule
something, even something clearly optional, over Easter, more so than if
we did so on Mothers Day.
Easter is not only a major family day, but a religious high holy
day as well, double whammy. For me, I could probably do that, but
I see it as a reason/excuse for others not to.
Of course, everything is optional, but still ...
>In NZ April 25th is a holiday as well (ANZAC day equivalent of Veterans
>Day in US). In some ways this is a good thing as it cuts down on the
>work days I'm away. Anyway this probably won't affect many others!
>Assuming N+I conforms to previous year formats it may have some stuff
>on Sunday but will go Mon to Fri as shown. The Exhibits and may
>conference sessions are typically Tue, Wed and Thu. Thu is usually a
>3/4 day at most with an early exhibit close.
>>I see a number of options, including:
>>1. Move DLV prior to Easter.
>>2. Tuesday, April 22 thru Sunday, April 27.
>>3. Tuesday, April 29 thru Sunday, May 4.
>>4. Thursday, May 1 thru Tuesday, May 6,
>>5. Holding off DLV until after Mothers Day.
>6. Start during Easter break and carry forward to following weekend. 7
>or eight days. Actually if you start it on Sun Apr 20 and carry through
>to Apr 27th this is more or less what Annie, Tina, Monique, Denise,
>Tony and I did anyway this year with the early show at the San Remo and
>the final celebration at Flex.
>So taking each of these I have shown these against the "calendar"
>17 Apr Thu
>18 Apr Fri Good Friday
>19 Apr Sat 6 (*)
>20 Apr Sun Easter Sunday 6
>21 Apr Mon 6
>22 Apr Tue 2 6
>23 Apr Wed 2 6
>24 Apr Thu 2 6
>25 Apr Fri ** 2 6
>26 Apr Sat 2 6
>27 Apr Sun N+I (*) 2 6 (*)
>28 Apr Mon N+I
>29 Apr Tue N+I 3
>30 Apr Wed N+I 3
>01 May Thu N+I 3 4
>02 May Fri N+I 3 4
>03 May Sat 3 4
>04 May Sun 3 4
>05 May Mon 4
>06 May Tue 4
>07 May Wed
>08 May Thu
>09 May Fri
>10 May Sat
>11 May Sun Mothers Day
>12 May Mon
>13 May Tue
>14 May Wed
>(*) Optional dates for the associated event
>>.... plus it locks out one (or more) of our long timers who travels
>>internationally to N+I....
>True to an extent. (And thanks to Annie for the consideration...
>assuming it was for me! :-])
Yes, it was. :)
>If N+I and DLV were a week apart it would be difficult if not
>impossible either come and go or stay the extra week. OTOH if there was
>a three or four week difference and they were in different months (a
>billing issue for ensuring reasonable income while I'm away) then it
>would be doable but may less viable than one two week trip.
>Options 2 and 6 appeal to me. Quite like the idea of a 20 Apr start in
>the evening going through Sat 26 Apr as the final night although I
>think we need to feel out the cost, availability and crowd issues in
>Las Vegas over Easter weekend.
I don't think the crowd issues will be anything like the family issues.
I think our best options are to shoehorn it in between Easter and
Mothers Day, avoiding both days if at all possible.
>The slightly longer schedule combined with a weekend start and end
>should allow for better travel arrangements as well as spreading out
>some of the activities more. For example we do want to include a
>Wednesday night at Sashas for the ??????? Club night (don't we?)
I also think we need to think very carefully before extending DLV.
I would like to see any extension be contingent on solid commitments of
volunteers to plan (additional) quality activities for those extra days.
Thinking back a couple months before DLV 2002, I remember I was getting
concerned that our feature activity of Saturday was still open.
We always have the option, say around the first of the year, to extend
a day or so one way or both if there is the demand and if activity people
do commit.
"Extended by popular demand!"
>Anyway another 2 cents worth.
And again, worth every penny. :)
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