Subject: dlvorg Feedback, comments, etc. ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Sat Jun 01 2002 - 08:04:33 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Air tour comfort
Monique writes
Survey comments
Casino Death Watch
Tina writes
Mindy writes
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV Organizational List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com) Replies to this
message will be forwarded to the DLV ORG list and not the main DLV list.
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Air tour comfort:
Gina writes:
>>12. Activities, comfort. Scale of 1 to 5, 5 being highest. Ordered
>>highest rated to lowest rated.
>>Air tours: 3.88
>I need to find out who wasn't comfortable on the Air Tours, so I can
>fix that problem.
I don't think it's anything for you to be concerned about. All of the
respondents to the air tour comfort question, except one, rated it the
highest level of comfort. The one person who rated it at the lowest
level of comfort rated every other activity at the same level,
indicating that she was in general uncomfortable in public.
Since the air tours had far fewer respondents than any of the other
things she attended, this one response shifted the average
significantly. 3.88 is nothing bad at all, definitely to the right of
midpoint. If we followed one somewhat common technique of dealing with
aggregates, that being throwing out the single lowest and highest
responses, comfort level would be 5.00 for the air tour.
Trying to trace back and see who made that entry would be very
difficult, requiring going through web server logs and from that
point guessing who hit that page at that time from that ISP.
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Monique writes:
[clip]
>>>although I have still have some reservations as it being the best place
>>>for a group photo (lighting, space, etc). Probably not a lot we can do
>>Is there anyplace that *would* be good for a group photo? That is, a
>>place where we would actually be able to get a good percentage of our
>>people assembled in one place?
>I felt the dance floor at Goodtimes worked quite well for our group
>photo, at least from the pics on the staging area I've seen.
Probably close to the best area we had in any place where most of our
people were at any one time.
>>>>+Also, we found it difficult to mix in as
>>>>+newcomers as most people had their associations already formed.
>>>>In 6 years of DLV, this is the first time I have ever heard anything
>>>>like this. Almost universally reported is just the opposite, being
[cut-paste]
>>>I think the focus of this comment should be on the associations. It is
>>>always easier to talk with people you know or who you've talked with
[bobbitt]
>Of course it is eaiser to associate with those that you know, but one
>thing I've learned post DLV'01 and being so active in the Southern
>Belle Society since then, is that I go out of my way to make sure I
>introduce myself to someone I don't know or haven't met. I followed
>through with that at DLV'02 and I even admit after the nametaking
>activities, I tended to migrate to the sisters I met at DLV'01 and
>nuture those friendships. But I hope I didn't turn a shoulder to a
>sister that I didn't meet before. I made so many new and more
>friendships this year with the newcomers at DLV'02.
My observation is that DLV is far less cliquish than other t* community
events I've been involved with. I still think this is an isolated case.
>>>I noticed this year...far more than in the past... That people were
>>>hungry for the stories behind the "folk lore of DLV" in the past. Annie
[cut-paste]
>>I think we definitely need to record the various anecdotes that have
>>occurred over the past 6 years, from the baggage mixup (sir, can you
>>describe the contents of this bag) to 7-11, to the bath house at Keys,
[whack]
>I don't know many of these stories myself. I had to ask Annie in person
>at DLV'02 about the infamous Galiano story and the Delmar stories,
>which she gladly told me. But then and again, this was my 2nd DLV.
LOL ... but which version did I tell you? :)
. . . . .
>>>>I've always said that when a restroom incident occurs, it's a result of
>>>>somebody "pushing it", meaning being too obvious doing so in a manner
[deletia]
>>>As for the use of the Ladies room I think we should be all absolutely
>>>honest. Tina is eminently passable and even an experienced TG watcher
>>>might take 3 or 4 goes to work out she is or isn't a GG. As are so many
[more deletia]
>>>As Annie has said attitude plays a part and the newcomers and even the
>>>oldies without confidence can often give themselves away by their
>>>demeanour and pose etc.
>Restroom issues: It's really simple here girls, get in, do your
>business and get out. This is not a place to primp, to hold a
>conversation, etc. I think we all agree on this. I do alot of
>mainstram places in Nashville, (e.g. the Hard Rock Cafe) but I don't
>primp in there. I get in and get out. At more GLBT friendly places,
>one can take a bit more time. It's not about passability, it's about
>doing your business, to be a bit blunt about it. Attitude, yes, does
>play a major role. Prior to DLV'01, I'd never dreamed of going into
>the 'ladies'. I do it all the time now, but under the guidelines I've
>just stated.
I would like to add one thing. Go individually! Yeah, there is security
having another with you, but it's far less likely to draw attention if
you go by yourself.
I had to very assertively tell one other to not follow me into the ladies
room over at the Riviera. "We do not go to the ladies room in groups!"
. . . . .
>>>Actually, I did note that the smokers I was with were quite conscious
>>>of my non smoking habits and asked or deferred from smoking most of the
>>>time.
>Thanks Michelle :)
. . . . .
>>>>>How about Showgirls of magic for next year? I laughed to hard I
>>>>>couldn't breathe...this one should be a "must see" for everyone.
>>>I second this. In fact, I volunteer to "adopt" this activity. :)
>>>And I'll vote for its inclusion!!!
>>I think we have our first DLV 2003 activity on the slate. :)
>Absolutely, IMO! And if you need help, count me in on this venue! An AB
>FAB time and I'm sure the DLV'03 attendees would really enjoy this
>show.
>Only question, how do all the sisters get pics with these wonderful
>showgirls?
Let's keep Tiny in the loop. I'm sure we can arrange something, even if
it requires a little in$entive. :)
>LOL. Plus, I can tell you that I had a drink at the bar
>just outside the show prior to joining ya'll, and this GG bartendress
>really enjoyed we sisters being there
>(as an aside, I got asked out from her for a lunch date the next day,
>enfemme).
Hmm ... is there a story there that should be in the canonical list of
DLV lore? :)
>Bottom line, the bar and the show is wonderful.
Agreed. I appreciated the fact she stayed open just a wee bit so we
could have one last drink. :)
. . . . .
>>>So I agree with everyone so far that we should keep DLV affordable and
>>>attainable for the lower ends of the $$'s and TG scale but not forget
>>>that there is (increasingly) a more sophisticated and upmarket audience
>>>for this event.
>I still think we should keep things affordable to all. Annie made some
>comments in the Monique writeup about San Remo. If the rates are good,
>that might be a good idea. As far as the upscale activities, these
>could be alternative venues, which certainly deserves discussion when
>the DLV'03 org group begins.
We need to bring this up when we discuss hotels when the 03 org list
gets going.
>>>Anyway since the value of the NZD has rocketed against the US dollar
>>>since I returned home, this is now worth 2.4 cents. :-)
>>And, still worth every penny, thanks. :)
>>>Hugs to all.
>Good to see you again Michelle. See ya next year :) Huggs
[deletia maxima]
>>The Casino Death Watch Page has listed this "at death's door" for some
>>time now. Although this page has no official sources, it's been
[cut-paste]
>>(www.jetcafe.org/~npc/gambling/casino_death_watch.html)
>Thanks for the link. I'm sure we'll all be keeping an eye on this.
I don't expect we will see any major surprises regarding closures over
the next year or so. The casino.gods are still regrouping after the
9-11 fallout. My opinion is that major decisions will be held off until
they get a feel for the way society and the economy will go.
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Survey comments:
Michelle writes:
>Hi
Hey Hey, My MY :)
>Some Survey comments and feedback:
>>Golf: 5.00 **DING** (12 responses)
>>High Tea: 5.00 **DING** (6 responses)
>>SO get-together: 5.00 (1 response, 1 discarded)
>Way to go GOLFERS!!!!!
>>I saw no big surprises. One thing that kinda stumped me was that the
>>comfort rating for such out-in-public things as the Palace Station
>>buffet and the Mall Crawl were so high. Thinking some more, it's obvious
>>that those who would be uncomfortable in such settings are not going to
>>do them.
>These were mostly towards the end of the week where the issues of being
>out about are less stressful. More time out, less stress, more comfort.
>IMHO
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Casino Death Watch:
>>The Casino Death Watch Page has listed this "at death's door" for some
[munch]
>>(www.jetcafe.org/~npc/gambling/casino_death_watch.html)
>That's a fascinating page. Thanks for giving me the link.
You're very welcome. :)
>Are you sure that's not one of yours?
If you mean my page, I'm very sure it's not mine.
>You notice that one thing they or you don't mention is Station Casinos
>and Circus group Casinos. Is this for a reason.
<semi lol> No reason I have, because I didn't write it. :)
Seriously, Mandalay (Circus) casinos are quite stable. They did have
Silver City on there before it closed. Ditto on Station casinos, they
seem to be very stable. They do mention the Wild Wild West, which is
a Station property, sorta. :)
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Tina writes:
>>>>+Anyway Diva Las Vegas could be held the week before the Pride Parade.
>>>Pride parade seems like its at the end on N+I week and DLV SHOULKD
>>>avoid that week as the hotel prices do go up as well as the general
>>>increase in people a convention brings...IMHO.
>>And from a personal standpoint, having DLV during N+I would lock me out
<snip>
>Another issue: hasn't the Pride Parade coincided with the Mother's Day
>weekend for the last 2 years?
Yes, you are correct.
>A few years ago we started scheduling DLV earlier in May to lessen the
>conflict with Mother's Day. That was back when we were starting on
>Thursday and ending on Tuesday, trying to wrapper a weekend with N+I
>starting on Tuesday IIRC. Then we moved it this year to its earliest
>start ever (actually in late April) to lessen conflicts with the
>expanded N+I schedule.
Actually, I think the overlap with N+I has been a secondary factor the
past year, as some of N+I began that weekend. If you count such things
as the volunteer network set-up team, it began the week before.
The first four years we had DLV immediately after N+I, first two years
starting on Friday, then pushing it back to Pre-DLV on Thursday, which
is the last "convention" day of N+I.
IIRC, it was to end up on a weekend that we tweaked the schedule.
>Personally, I liked the early in the week start and the end on the
>weekend. It let me come out the previous weekend and get 2 weekends in
>LV out of one trip.
I think the end on the weekend is the best overall, even though I
sometimes think it might be good to extend it to Monday to discourage
the mass-bailout that happens on Sunday. We had a very good Monday crowd
in 2001, IIRC.
Now, to throw a wrench in the works, next year's N+I will run the week
of April 28 - May 2. Mothers Day will be May 11. It will be possible to
squeeze DLV between the two under certain conditions.
>Scheduling is always a hard topic, since you're bound to conflict with
>somebody's favorite something.
That is very true. Actually, IIRC, we held DLV over Mothers Day 3 out
of the first 4 years, with no griping until just prior to DLV 2000.
. . . . .
>Newbies fitting In:
>Re newbies, we had more newbies than returnees this year, according to
>Annie, so we had a big challenge.
Yes, ever since the first year, newcomers have outnumbered returnees. I
expect this to continue. (Actually, I guess you could say that the first
year was 100% newcomers. :)
>Seems like all I did was talk to newbies, although I know that's not
>true, but I sure did meet a bunch.
>It was newbies everywhere on Tuesday night at Flex, a whole table of
>newbies to eat with Wednesday night at Hamburger Mary's, and I sat with
>newbies at LaFemme on Thursday. I didn't see many newbies at Dance
>Night on Friday though.
>I also know from looking at the pictures that there are many newbies I
>recognize that I wanted to talk to because they looked interesting, but
>it just didn't happen. Worse, there are a few faces that I don't even
>recognize.
{blush} There were two people who *did* attend DLV 2001 who I did not
recognize as returnees. It's getting large enough that nobody is going
to recognize everybody.
>I had a sense that most newbies this year were older and more
>conservative. Of course, there were exceptions. Did others see this
>pattern?
I think our age base has skewed toward the more mature for a few years,
for some reason, both with newcomers and returnees. The last year I
remember any significant 20-something contingent was 1999. Of course
we're getting older. (Don't rub it in, please, I have a Big One coming
up soon.) :( :(
Conservative? No, I don't see very many Limbot types in there. :)
I think I see fewer party-animal types than I did, if that's what you
mean. Still, the crowd was fun-loving and very congenial.
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Mindy writes:
>there are several issues i would like to address in the last mailing..
>>+Anyway Diva Las Vegas could be held the week before the Pride Parade.
>>+Would like to stay a bit longer in LV to attend both, but not with a
>>+whole week in between. Thanks
>I will check on the schedule for Gay Pride.. i am sure the dates are
>already set..
Thanks, please let us know as soon as you find out.
>>+Being older (66) my so and I don't care for late night activities or
>>+smokey noisey clubs.
>for the non smokers in the diva family. all i can say is nevada is one
>of the last bastions of the smoker. it will most likely stay this way
>for the next few years if not longer.. gambling and smoking go
>together.. the casinos are a very stong political influence and smoking
>in most public places will always be a factor.. my best recomendations
>are
>1. if you supply a vehicle make it non smoking
>2. if you have problems with smoke other them not liking the smell take
>alergy medications prior to a large group event.
>3. wear machine washable clothing, much cheeper to get the smell out.
>4. remember that when in rome, smoking is a fact of life in nevada. i
>dont see any time soon when bars, casinos and most resturants outlaw
>it. i know it is not enjoyable to many of you but there is no way the
>group can get away from it with the venues we wish to attend. be
>thankful that the showrooms are smokefree and that most resturants have
>smoke free sections.
I do have to admit that most of the smokers appeared to be very
courteous throughout DLV 2002. Even in places such as Milano's, where
I did not see any No Smoking signs posted, all smokers but one stepped
outside when engaging in the habit.
I do agree that Las Vegas is not a non-smoker's haven.
>>The whole issue of the Boardwalk in 2002 has been a perplexing one. On
>>the one hand, they employ a respected member of the DLV org group,
>>which is how they got recommended to us in the first place. On the
>>other hand, they were very difficult to work with in 2002:
>>1 - slow to quote hard and fast room rates
>>2 - weren't particularly competitive on room rates
>>3 - totally mishandled restroom issues
>in answer to the 3 issues with the boardwalk. i have adressed all of
>these in the past but have not seen any of my responses posted.
Mindy's post-DLV comments on the Boardwalk and the restroom issue appear
in digest #105 of the org list and digest #37 of the main list.
If there's ever any question of something submitted that does not get
posted, please let me know. Technical and human errors do happen, but
it's very rare that I will not include something that comes in. If you
should ever send something here and it ends up in a black hole, it's
very easy to trace what exactly happened to it.
I'm not going to intentionally hold back any submitted material.
>so for the last time..
>1 the room rate issue is a non issue.. the casion hostess in charge of
>our group quoted her best rate as of the date of an inquiry. her
>information was that if you book a room today this is the rate.. if the
>rate goes up yours does not.. if the rate goes down i will rebook you
>at the lower rate.. it seems that many people saw this as a dodge of
>some kind. i really doubt that any other hotel offered to lower your
>rate if it went down.. all denese was trying to do was give you the
>best rate she had on her desk at the time with the promise that if
>rates went lower she would lower the booking to the lower rate.. there
>is no way any casion employee dealing with anybody but the mega player
>can do any better the that and most hotels say what you booked is what
>you get..
>2. competitive is in the eye of the beholder.. some hotels had better
>rates but then they did not have the high end of the strip location.
>also i have been in rooms at both the IP and sahara and the boardwalk
>main tower rooms are nicer then both and my sisters reported no room
>maint problems that where not taken care of asap. also at the time most
>were complaning of the rates the hotel was over 80% booked in
>anticipation of a major championship fight. rates later went way
>down.. in fact my little sisters stayed at the boardwalk and on check
>in found that thier rates had been lowered yet again..
>3. the bathroom issue.. as i sent to you earlier this was a
>combination of misunderstanding and miscommunication. the director of
>security experssed his regrets it was not handled properly and we have
>agreed to discuss this in the future for not only diva but for a
>general hotel policy regarding the t community as a whole. as you
>mentioned earlier i am a respected employee of the boardwalk and this
>situation was sad but can be fixed in the future..
>with the agreement
>of the org people i would like to take transcripts of this whole issue
>to the director of security. the casino manager, the director of player
>development and the general manager.
Are there any objections to Mindy doing this? Personally, I don't have
any issue with it.
>as a general comment on the bathroom issue.. in the larger casinos we
>will encounter few problems as to the large number of facilities
>available and the dispursion of our group.. until the managment of the
>casino's are educated however we will alway have issues at smaller
>casinos when we concentrate a large number of us.. its unavoidable if
>we are then in mass not to attract attention at the bathrooms..
>rather the dismiss any club out of hand because of bathroom issues we
>need to make an effort to educate and negotiate with them.. remember
>they have no obligation to provide us with anything they dont want to
>.. however my discussions with the securtity head at the boardwalk
>opened my eyes to the other side of the issue.. 1st he had little
>understanding of the reasons that t's in dress "need" to use the female
>restrooms, 2 he had a real (and valid) concern about the response of
>the day to day guests of the hotel.
>imagine that the sahara loses 1 mainstream guest because they are
>offended by t's in the ladies room.. actually no real impact on thier
>business at the end of the day.. but a small club it can be several %
>points differance in the drop.. after our discussion he realized we had
>real and valid concerns both socialy and from a safty standpoint and
>has agreed to meet with me over the next couple of months to actually
>make a policy regarding t's in the boardwalk that are fair (we have to
>negotiate that), safe, and most of all make t's feel welcome and
>comfortable at the boardwalk.. what this will result in when all is
>said and done i do not know but rest assured they want our business and
>are trying thier best to make the situation as workable for all
>concerned as they can..
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