Subject: dlvorg Fantasy Ball and headcount issues ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Thu Mar 07 2002 - 08:37:42 CST
In this mailing:
Org List
Uh-huh
Metamorphosis (Fantasy Ball)
Headcounts and limits
Headcounts
Reflection on concern
Crowd Size Concerns
Back in time
Summary Schedule of Activities
Tentative DLV 2001 schedule
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV Organizational List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com) Replies to this
message will be forwarded to the DLV ORG list and not the main DLV list.
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Uh-huh:
I figured we would get some feedback on the headcount issue, but not
this much. I want to thank those who responded, I think we have some
excellent thoughts and ideas. Let's continue thinking, send in anything
significant, and hope we don't have to be concerned with the issue this
year.
Sorry if my editing or responses seem a bit haphazard. This is a lot
of (very good) material to process. Thanks again, gang. :)
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Metamorphosis (Fantasy Ball):
Leah writes:
>Just got this back from J.D. who is one of the organizers of
>Metamorphosis. I wrote him back asking if we could simply just mention
>DLV at the door for the discount instead of providing a name list.
+Leah,
+Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Have given a lot of thought
+to your question and think that the best thing to do is offer your
+group the opportunity to buy at the couples rate (which averages out to
+$15 per ticket).
+The easiest thing would be for you to provide a list of the people who
+will be coming each month and they can pick up their tickets at Bare
+Essentials the week of the event. I would issue individual female
+tickets, as oppossed to the single $30 couples ticket, and would have
+your list at the door in case there was any question. Does that sound
+fair?
Comments, ladies? (gentlemen?)
Personally, I think it would be best if our people could be trusted to
identify at the door. The picking up of tickets at Bare Essentials is
a hoop-jump that would be a bit inconvenient for some, but not a major
one, imao. (The guys who run BE know us and love us. :)
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Headcounts and limits:
>Hope you are having a great day!
So far so good, actually, Insurance finally settled on my car that kinda
got destroyed, and I ended up getting much more than I would have gotten
on a trade-in. :)
>My comments using your item numbers:
>1. Limits. I agree the 100-150 range is probably the maximum number
>that can be handled without creating adverse situations. It appears
>that most of the venues are realistically under 50 and some under 20 -
>since establishments also have their normal patrons on any given day.
Yes, all depends on the activities and the venues. I would say that
the lowest would be the air tours, about 3 pax * 2 planes * 3 trips
is about 18 max on that, while La Cage, LaFemme, and Palace Station
Buffet could easily accommodate a couple hundred.
>Is Friday and/or Saturday nights are the ones to really look at for a
>big attendance?
Ok, running the roster script on our current database gives the
following numbers ...
Tue: 47 + 10 SO = 57
Wed: 57 + 14 SO = 71
Thu: 71 + 18 SO = 89
Fri: 78 + 19 SO = 97
Sat: 76 + 20 SO = 96
Sun: 72 + 20 SO = 92
Yes, largest crowds will most certainly be on the weekends. These
numbers are just a snapshot of where we are now, and don't really
indicate what our final numbers will be.
>2. Timing. I am not in favor of tinkering with this year's time at
>all. And, for future years, I think the early May time frame is
>perfect!
I think I maybe used the wrong terminology for this. See note above, or
is it below? :)
I do agree, however, that the May timeframe is perfect!
>3. Real-World Headcount. I leave this to you entirely! I do see this
>becoming bigger every year as attendees spread the word about the
>fabulous time they had.
Hard to project. Last year I attempted to use some geekoid methods and
missed it by 11. (114 registered, 73 projected, 62 actually checked in,
2-3 were seen but did not get checked on the list.) This year I want to
use assertive reconfirmation to get a closer handle on our numbers.
>4. Planning. I agree that there must be some options in place,
>especially since new places are being offered. I see this as a
>PRIORITY item.
>PLAN ELEMENTS:
>1., 2. and 3. I personally do not think suspending registration,
>making a waiting list or stopping registration entirely is a good idea
>- unless the organizers want this to remain under 100 attendees. If
>someone is turned away once, they will find something else to fill that
>slot in their time. While this can be viewed as having the effect of
>people getting on the boat earlier next year, that is seldom what
>happens.
I want to use this only as a last resort if for some reason the number
of registrations runs away without a visible bound.
>4. This I think is the most logical and workable solution, not only
>for this year, but future years. I believe this would promote earlier
>registrations. This would cause the organizers to have venues in place
>earlier though, as more options might have to be offered for time
>slots. Which of course, will require more volunteers to handle some of
>the legwork.
>Isn't it amazing how things that are good and fun just seem to grow!
Uh-huh :)
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Headcounts:
>Here's my $.02 on this, I'm not going to adust for inflation this time.<g>
... and worth every penny {ducking}. :)
>You've got to draw the line somewhere. My vote is for 200. If only half
>of them show up, you still have more than we ever have. If 2/3 show up,
>we'll be packed, but ok, if 3/4 show up, well, w'll be jammed, but that's
>life in the big city.<g>
>Do you think 200 will really sign up by May?
If the current rate of registrations keeps up, it most definitely will.
This is unfortunately very hard to predict. As I hopefully made clear,
I don't want to sound the alarm on this just yet, I want to be ready
just in case ...
>Now, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be critical. Part
>of the problem is that you've done such a bang-up job organizing and
>promoting Diva. Girls WANT to come. The girls who come have a great
>time and tell friends and it goes on and on. Compare your web site with
>those for SCC or Fantasia Fair. You blow the others out of the water
>hands down!
Thanks, I will take that as a compliment and not a criticism. {blush}
>You can't possibly surf that site for ten minutes and NOT want to
>come. But there is one thing, please don't take it the wrong way, I
>mean it to be constructive. You don't have to put up with all this
>mamby-pamby wishy-washy maybe I just might show bull-crap. Either
>they are coming or their not coming. If they don't take the effort to
>answer a tick-sheet on if they are coming to what, then cancel them!
>Give them one warning only. Then get them off the books and make room
>for someone who wants to come and will show.
>Sounds hipocritical, I know, since I've said there is a 50/50% chance
>I won't be able to come, but I think I'm serious and trying to get
>my schedule arranged so I can. I don't need a warning, I'll let you
>know right when I know.
>You can only go so far
>for them, and everyone has bent over sideways to help the new girls
>and make them feel at ease. You can't hold their hand and make them
>buy their ticket, be sure they really get on the plane. Again, you
>need to draw the line somewhere.
>Maybe back when you started with 15 or so girls it was no big thing
>when someone didn't show, but now they are being rude by saying
>they will come and don't. There are others who want their spot.
>Now that I got that off my chest, sorry if I came on strong there, but
>it p---es me off when people can't make up their minds or else they
>sit there and fence sit and beg you to make up their mind for them.
I understand where you are coming from. Yes, this is the kind of
discussion I think we need.
I have a tendency to go easy on people, and cut them slack, loads of
it, when I can. I'm realizing that this year, and for years to come,
we may have to be more assertive in regards to defecate or abdicate
situations.
>That being said, let me make this suggestion if you are worried about
>falling out of grace with the bars. If it looks like more than 100
>will really show, divide the whole group up. On Tuesday, A-M go to
>Goodtimes and N-Z to to Flex. On Friday, A-G and N-R go to Flex and
>H-M and S-Z to Goodtimes, to keep mixing up the people.
Not sure I totally understand the procedure, but I like the idea.
There's really no law that says we can't use two (or more) venues for
some of the things if necessary.
I did say "comments?" here, but some have already come in. :)
>One last thing, I don't think I understand what you mean by timing.
>Do you mean schedule of Diva as a whole, or timing of the events
>going on within Diva?
I guess I was not too clear on this. What I thought I meant was the
timing between now and DLV. I wanted to emphasize that it is too late in
the game and impractical to do such things as cancel Milano's and book
the main ballroom at the LV Hilton, for example.
>And in conclusion, I want to say that Diva has changed my entire
>outlook on life. It breaks my heart that I might not be able to
>come this year, but I'm still working on it. Back three years ago
>I was a wreck and didn't know what I was or who I was. Meeting you
>girls has been a total life changing experience and I will be
>forever thankful.
Thank you. It is comments like this that let us know that we are indeed
doing something right. That's one major purpose of DLV, to support our
people. ... and we have fun too! :)
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Reflection on concern:
Leah writes:
>Yes, I have been looking ahead to next year already with the same
>concerns.....I better get my CDL so we can rent a bus!
><Stop for a second here and visualize that.......><g>
Actually, I can. :)
Not that I would recommend it for DLV, but for the Halloween Pub Crawl
at Fall Harvest 1997, one of the RCGA ladies who had her CDL did just
that. It was a school bus, of all things. :)
>I would agree with you at putting a cutoff on the registrations.....
>just too close now to re-work everything. The question for next year
>might be if you want to take all comers or limit it again. Plenty of
>time for that.
Yes, we can discuss all options in the planning of DLV 2003.
>I think we can keep the same venues if over 100 show. HM's, Goodtimes,
>Angles etc. all have large capacity.
It seems like many people agree those places can handle it. I'm feeling
better about it.
>The main problem will be transportation from one place to the next.
>Those outlying clubs we attend don't have taxi stands.
>But, as I said in an earlier message.....everyone should assume some
>liability for their own transportation when they are on vacation......
>On-call cabs are readily available too and I am sure the girls can fend
>for themselves somewhat. I don't mind coming back to a place for a
>second load but foursies and fivesies aren't in my plan at the moment.
>Maybe we should get one of those rolls of coupons and draw for car seats
>each time? :)
I didn't really think of the transportation issue, but it could be a
concern.
We are fortunate that we have 36 (current count) who have volunteered to
drive others and only 26 who have indicated they will be needing a ride.
Therefore I don't think we will have much of a crunch there unless the
trend reverses sharply.
We'll again emphasize that the DLV volunteer drivers are not taxi drivers,
etc. I know you will have a van, and I will have one too for the Tuesday
thru Monday period.
I think if all of us keep a cool head and cooperate with each other, we
can get everybody (everybody who is on time, that is) everyplace they
need to get efficiently and safely.
>If you are taking some sort of headcount....put me down for a cutoff
>and waiting list please.
I didn't intend to take a call for votes or headcount, just to give
everybody a heads up on something that probably won't happen. All I am
calling for now would be comments and discussion.
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Crowd Size Concerns:
Tina writes:
>Be calm and breathe deeply into the paper sack. :-)
Yes, mother! :) {huff - huff - huff}
>Feel free to make additional snips to
[bobbitt]
Ok, I will. :)
>P.S. I'm in a real smart-mouth mood today.
Join the club. :)
>>I'm not by any means pulling the alarm just yet, but I want to give
>>everybody a heads-up so if this happens we won't get caught <snip>
>I always try hard not to get caught. :-)
>Tucking helps in this regard. :-) :-)
So does dressing down {touche'} :) :) :)
(WHO is in a smart-mouth mood today?) :)
>>My concern is the maximum number of people the current model of DLV,
>>specifically what we have planned for DLV 2002, will handle.
>It's deja vu, all over again. I remember that we had this same
>discussion last year when the registration numbers zoomed for awhile.
Oh yes, that was in December of 2000.
>What were the final numbers from last year (registrations vs actual
>attendance)?
Look above or below. I just used them in another item and I'm not sure
which order the digestifier will put them in, but they are in this
mailing. Three detailed responses kinda came in bang-bang-bang and
I'm iteratively responding to all.
>>Reason for my concern is that the registrations are coming in at such
>>a rate, and that rate itself seems to be increasing.
>We probably are a beneficiary of cancellations by some other groups of
>long-standing activities (didn't California Dreaming cancel this year?)
That is a very good point, although nobody has actually mentioned it
in the list or on a registration comment.
>and our own popularity and success in advertising.
Very true. Word has gotten out farther and wider this year than ever
before.
>>I would like to have a discussion -- which does not have to be the
>>number one item on our plate -- and a contingency plan <snip>
><Tina flips her blonde hair> I love discussions and planning.
Good, you're in the right place. :)
>>1. There exists a practical limit to the number of people that the
[snip]
>Agreed, but I think that it is somewhere above 250. I tried to find my
>discussion from last year on my old system but no joy, so razor sharp
>blonde memory will have to do.
Found it, see below. It was off-line, not on the DLVORG list, and I had
to dig back thru old mail to recover it.
>Basically, most of our venues are larger than we take advantage of.
>Remember the whole separate room with dance floor at Goodtimes that can
>easily accomodate an extra 100 people. Gipsy can accomodate crowds of
>hundreds (and does, if you stay late enough). Overflow from Gipsy can
>always go to (dare I say it) FreeZone. The clustering of clubs at the
>Commercial Center means that the overflow can be split to adjacent
>clubs (LV Lounge, Spotlight, the gay cowboy place whose name I can't
>remember, Cobalt, etc)
True. Friday evening and Saturday are my primary concerns here.
>We've already done a good job of scheduling weekend activites at these
>bigger venues.
>Some of the smaller restaurants may be challenged if we show up with
>300 people, but we just direct overflow to the closest hotel buffet.
For food, 30 will overwhelm Milano's, but as you say, we can direct
overflow appropriately.
>I hear that you endorse both the Sahara and IP buffets. :-)
Endorse? Uh ...
Well, uh, I've eaten at both. :) We had a group din-din at the Sahara
buffet for 3 years now. In 1999 and 2000, people liked it. In 2001 I
heard complaints. I've always eaten at the smaller buffet at IP, the one
in the back of the coffee shop, having been told the big one is a
vomitorium maximus.
>Also, in spite of my great love for fine dining, I'll be happy to lead
>the Burger King backup contingent.
You can get BK anywhere. In Las Vegas it's Fatburger! :)
>>2. It will be too late in the game to radically change the model of DLV
>>2002 if and when it is known that an overwhelming crowd will attend.
See notes above, or are they below this time? :)
>Agreed. Oh right, that's what a tautology is. I've agreed to it as a
>basic assumption already. (Had to call my blonde friend Elle Woods over
>at Harvard on this one.)
If we take classical logic and express it in the form of logic that uses
gates and flip-flops, we can say that a tautology evaluates to one and
a contradiction evaluates to zero. :)
>>3. Our exact headcount cannot be known exactly until DLV happens, but we
>>will have a reasonable degree of accuracy this year in predicting our
>>final turnout.
>Using the 50% pattern?
I don't think we will ever get to the point that our registration count
equals our live body count, but it's kind of a challenge of mine to get
them to more or less agree. 50% no-show bothers me. Actually, it was
closer to 45% last year, but still ...
I want to use the activity show-of-hands survey, which will begin early
April, to reconfirm people's intent to attend, with increasingly less
gentle reminders to respond for those who do not. In looking for
patterns, I think we had only one person who responded to last year's
show-of-hands survey who was a no-show.
I would be very happy if we get the no-show rate down to 10% or so. I
think with the larger numbers, we can't afford such an uncertainty.
I want to see a less significant fudge factor used to convert between
registration count and live body count.
>>4. To allow DLV to attract a crowd far in excess of what can be handled
>>would indeed be performing a disservice, and not a service to the t*
>Agreed, but I don't see that happening this year. My definition of far
>in {excess} would be 400+ actual attendees.
>Comments?
I think most of us agree there is a limit, but disagree or are unsure
on what that limit is.
><bigger snip. Thank God we escaped those tautology gangs without
>getting caught.>
>Oh no, now we're in the Comments on Comments forest. Run, Toto, run.
YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEEP DARK FOREST. A BIG GREEN FIRE-BREATHING
DRAGON BLOCKS YOUR WAY.
-=> kill dragon
WITH WHAT, YOUR BARE HANDS?
-=> yes
CONGRATULATIONS, YOU HAVE JUST VANQUISHED A DRAGON.
>>3. Real-world headcount. My gut feeling is that we will have a total
>>body count between 70 and 100, with no single activity representing all
>>of them. That's what I feel in the gut, reinforced by what we've seen in
>>the past regarding such things as mailing list count and yearly history
>>of growth.
>Agreed.
I agree too. :)
>>With our current rate of registrations, it is indeed possible for our
>>registration count to hit the 300 mark or beyond. Even with a very
>>drastic no-show rate, we could have well over 150 bodies to deal with.
>I don't see this as a major problem (see comments above). Casino shows
>can almost always handle 100 more. They like to sell tickets. Frank's
>shows always seem half empty even on Saturday.
Hmmmm .... I seem to remember in 2000 that La Cage was full or almost
full. Am I incorrect on this?
Still, for this, our people will have more than enough time to reserve
tickets so that everybody who wants to see it, and who follows thru and
actually buys a ticket, will see it.
>>4. I see having no plan, or a "if it happens it happens" plan not to be
>>an option. I could see us falling out of favor with some venues should
[deletia]
>Agreed. Suggest we develop a list of backup places. (Yes, I know that
>we're still trying to nail down the last of the primary places.) One
>backup place should be sufficient. I would recommend Goodtimes as the
>designated backup place for all social activities that experience
>overflow,
There is one evening where Goodtimes has a liquor bust. It's either
Sunday or Monday. We should probably avoid it that night. Ikon seems
like it may be a good overflow place as well.
>and someone who likes restaurants should recommend a
>designted backup restaurant. Obvious risks are on the weekend.
True, but for our Friday dinner, we will have a very accurate count,
and can make an additional reservation if needed. We should know if
we will need this by the middle of April.
>>1. Suspending registrations. If our anticipated headcount exceeds what
[whack]
>Do this if registraton exceeds 500 (projecting 250 actuals). At that
>point, vigorously kick-in your reconfirmation thing (requiring people
>to reconfirm promptly by e-mail.) Drop those who don't reconfirm and
>re-open registration.
I want to kick in reconfirmations long before we ever get to a critical
level.
I only want to suspend registrations as a last resort.
>Since there's no fee, and registrations doesn't actually buy or
>guarantee anything, the few people who still show up who missed the
>notice to re-confirm would still be easily accomodated.
I think those who do not reconfirm, but show anyway, just like those
few who do not register, but show anyway, will be so small that we do
not need to be concerned with them.
>>2. Waiting list. Perhaps as an alternative to #1. The registration
>>routines actually have this capability. As others cancel or fail to
>>reconfirm, earliest ones waiting get bumped from "waiting" to "ok".
>Seems confusing and induces worry to people, particularly at a time
>when hotel and air rates will be rising. Better to just tell them yes
>or no up front.
>>3. Stopping registrations hard and fast at some time. "We're full, see
---8<---
>Put the "full" sign up at 700. I seriously doubt this level would
>happen this year. Last year we saw registrations fall off seriously in
>the last month. I suspect this is because people get discouraged by
>the higher last-minute travel costs.
Historically, for the legacy t* conventions, last minute registrations
made up a significant percentage of participants. Fortunately for us,
over the past two years this has not been the case. Yes, our rate of
registration did taper off last year as the date approached. I was
bracing for a rush, though.
>>4. Not limiting registrations or headcount, but declaring various
>>activities "full" according to what we think they can handle.
>We've already done this informally over the last few years with
>pre-purchasing show tickets and limo tickets and other hoops.
>I know we tried as a group to avoid these hoops this year, but there
>are still some inherent ones. Let me give you an example. Limos,
>depending on size, hold 6 or 8 people. (Aiko, I'm quoting from last
>year, let me know if I say anything that would contradict the great
>plans you're doing for this year.)
>Tours are only economical and fun if you fill the limo and split the
>cost among the riders. You don't rent an extra limo for just one extra
>rider. Yet, if you get several more with cash in hand (it's the
>"several" that's the key), limo companies are glad to send an extra
>car. Last year, the limo company assured us that we could have added
>an extra car even on the last day, but we only had those onsies and
>twosies and they weren't holding cash anyway.
>Same song, second verse, for shows, dinner reservations, etc. You can
>almost always buy extra tickets, even if you show up very late, you
>just don't get a guarantee that you'll be seated with the main group.
>At a restaurant, that may mean waiting for a table to open up.
>Obviously, there's a limit to how many girls you can pack into those
>little airplanes. Eventually, the pilots would get tired and have to
>quit for the day. If you had 300 girls in line (never happen!!), then
>just do it first come, first served.
>We have to be practical here. We provide a great service and
>experience with DLV. It's not perfect, but it's damn good. I have
>extreme confidence in the DLV brain trust, with a few simple advance
>thoughts like Annie is doing, that we can react swiftly to unexpected
>crowd crushes at restaurants and bars and shift part of the group to
>the backup.
I agree that the DLV people are second to none! We run a very classy
affair, and the benefit to the community is significant!
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Back in time:
Dr Brown, crank up that Flux Capacitor! {k-kBBBzzzzzzzzzzZZZssshhhhhhmmmmm!}
This is the conversation Tina reminded me of. I became concerned in
December of 2000 when our registrations started coming in and the
projection routine I had written started projecting a three-figure
attendance.
This was off line and not in the DLVORG group, so it did not make it
to the archives.
It's kinda amusing in today's context. :)
+Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:59:02 -0600
+I'm sorry that I didn't pick up your message sooner. We had an ice
+storm earlier this week (a relatively rare occurence for Austin, TX)
+and we didn't have electricity for 2 days. We burned more firewood in
+2 days than in the previous 5 years!!
+> ...As you know, our people want headcount estimates as early as
+> possible. :)
+Well, I haven't registered yet, because I haven't decided about the
+Imperial Palace. I know I'm coming, but will wait until January to
+make plane reservations.
+What was our actual count last year (total attendance)?
+Do you know how many actually attended the Frank Marino show?
+How about the opening night at GoodTimes?
+(I remember these as our 2 biggest crowds in 2000. For instance, we
+only had 9 show up for Splash on Sunday.)
+> So far we have 20 people signed up and it isn't even 2001 yet. This is
+> more than we had in 1997 and almost as many as we had in 1998. What
+> scares me is the rate of signups is increasing. If the rate stays the
+> same, that means we will have about 118 people attending. This is AFTER
+> the fudge-factor is applied. This is more people than we can possibly
+> handle with the current model of DLV.
+Well, I don't think we'll get all 118 together at the same time, except
+maybe for the group picture. If we do, we should open up our own casino
+floor show. :-)
+Seriously, I wonder about the following:
+1). In previous years, people "registered" by e-mail. Is the easy
+availability of a Web registration tool encouraging a lot of non-serious
+people to register?
+2). How does the 118 number compare to the total number of people on the
+DLV mailing list?
+3). What percentage of the 20 registrants are on the current mailing
+list? How many have been on the list longer than 1 year? How many are
+repeats from previous year(s)?
+4). If we designate an "official" travel agent, can that person legally
+and ethically keep us informed of how many DLV packages they have sold?
+> Looking ahead (and taking a trip to the real world) I don't think there
+> is anyway with the time remaining (141 days), the current volunteer
+> force, and the current budget (none) that we can re-tool DLV to handle
+> well over 100 people.
+I definitely agree that we shouldn't re-tool DLV. I would propose
+sticking with the current plans, but keeping in mind that we may get
+some bigger numbers (more on that below).
+I think we need to actually see the crowd get that big (by physically
+showing up) before we try to change the scope and tone of DLV. If
+thousands show up (won't happen yet, unfortunately!!!), then we would
+have a disaster; but, if it is just real crowded then I think we can
+handle that.
+> First of all, do you agree with me that we can't handle this number of
+> people? When I look at our planned facilities, such as LV Lounge and
+> Goodtimes, I think 60-80 people would pack them to standing room only.
+> Keys would be far worse.
+Shows (Frank, Kenny, Tropicana, etc) can easily handle hundreds of extra
+people. Look how many empty seats each year on the Saturday FI shows.
+Even Splash, which had a big house, had tickets available at show-time.
+Our bars would love for us to bring them such a big crowd. That size of
+group wouldn't seem unusual to me compared to Saturday night crowds at
+the big gay bars in Houston, DC and NYC (same for Gipsy on Satuday night
+in LV). There would be issues about scaring newbies by such a big
+group, so we definitely need to keep working the Big Sister plan to keep
+them from getting lost (or turning back at the door).
+Also, remember that GoodTimes has that large dance floor (past the rest
+rooms) that is always dark and empty, so they actually could easily
+handle 200 people (but definitely a standing room only crowd).
+LV Lounge also had a big empty seating area (kind of like restaurant
+booths with naugahyde benchs) past their rest rooms, so they could also
+handle a big crowd. LV Lounge is actually shaped like an L. I know
+about those benchs, because an itninerant jewelry salesman cornered me
+back there one (non-DLV) night. The watch he sold me doesn't run well,
+but sure looks pretty. I'm less happy with the ring I bought. :-(
+You are right about Keys being over-whelmed, so we might need to have an
+overflow place in mind. There is a bar across the street (The
+Spotlight, I think) that I *think* is a gay bar (haven't been there, but
+have talked to them on phone about karaoke). Anybody know anything
+about it?
+Also, Keys is on Thursday night, which is a lower risk.
+> What do you two think about planning for a registration "cap" of
+> something like 75-80 people? I'm thinking if we do go ahead and let well
+> over 100 people register, we would be irresponsible and we're just
+> asking for pandemonium.
+I definitely don't like the idea of a cap. Maybe there is a way to get
+a better feeling on how many will actually be attending. One area is in
+pre-selling show tickets. I know that is a big hassle, because I went
+through it with Splash last year.
+I haven't yet checked with the Trop for their seating system (reseved
+seats vs group seating upon arrival, like we had with Kenny Kerr).
+Assuming that the Trop has the reserved seat approach that most
+showrooms have, I'll have to work out something anyway. Last year, I
+took "reservations" by e-mail, bought half that many tickets, and
+re-sold them at face value (actually a slight discount, since I paid the
+tax) to the girls in the days leading up to the show. Because the
+numbers were small, I only got stuck with 2 tickets I couldn't re-sell.
+For 2001, I could consider something more formal, perhaps along the
+lines of accepting money orders in advance and reserving small table
+blocks (maybe in 4s or 8s) as the money comes in. We could truthfully
+tell people that we are concerned about the logistics of getting people
+into recognizable DLV groups, so we must take this approach to get
+people sitting in DLV groups. If they don't want to pre-pay, they can
+always order tickets individually.
+Of course, there are lots of problems to think through with this
+approach:
+ - People would have to give me a real mailing address (though not a
+real name) so that I could get their ticket to them in advance.
+ - People would have to trust me to take their money and then deliver
+the tickets.
+ - It wouldn't help last minute people (but last year's approach didn't
+either).
+And probably a lot more issues that I haven't thought of yet. But, it
+would give us some idea of who is seriously thinking about coming.
+Because Sunday has never been as heavy as Saturday, we would have to
+apply some type of multiplication factor.
+I was also thinking about how to handle the limo reservations. For
+that, I was planning to follow last year's approach. Reserve one limo
+in advance (since I'll use it anyway, even if I go by myself ... might
+be fun!), sell "tickets" at the DLV night events leading up to Sunday,
+then order a 2nd limo if enough girls pay in advance. "Tickets" would
+probably be around $20, but I would decide that after confirming limo
+rates. I would have to warn the girls signing up after the 1st limo was
+full, that there would have to be a minimum number sold before
+confirming the 2nd limo. Obviously, I still have to think through this
+one also. My point is that adding limos for a big crowd has some risk
+of non-availability, but I don't see it as a high risk.
+> I'm thinking of a plan such as this:
+>
+> 1. Keeping the existing plans for DLV 2001, using the model we've
+> used since 1997.
+>
+> 2. Set a limit on the number of registrations we accept for DLV 2001.
+> The exact number can be discussed, but I'm thinking of something in the
+> neighborhood of 75-80 or so. (The logistics of doing this, having a
+> waiting list, opening up in case of cancellations, etc. are not really
+> that difficult.)
+Unless you add a registration fee ($50 ??), I think that it would be
+hard to trust the solidity of any registrations. What incentive would
+non-serious people have to cancel to make room for others?
+> 3. Announce at DLV 2001, that our demand is exceeding the supply, and
+> get people thinking about what they want for DLV 2002 and beyond. (I
+> would like to hold this off until DLV 2001 if possible, to keep people
+> thinking of DLV 2001 and not getting hung up in any meta-discussions of
+> the long range plans for DLV.)
+If we really exceed capacity at 2001, that would be the time to bring up
+the subject of changes for 2002. I definitely agree with you about not
+bringing it up as a big thing for 2001, which is why I am against a
+registration cap (see above).
+> 4. Make the decision collectively, right after DLV 2001, whether we want
+> to keep DLV in its current model (with the necessary evil of limiting
+> registrations) or to expand it (with the necessary complexities and loss
+> of intimacy).
+>
+> I don't see a need to make any hard and fast decisions immediately,
+> since it looks like we do have until well after the holidays before the
+> numbers reach a critical level, but I would like to have plans in place
+> beforehand.
+You are wise to think ahead. I'm sure we'll all have better ideas in
+January about ways to pre-plan for a bigger group.
+Really, Friday and Saturday are our only risky nights. GoodTimes can
+handle a bigger crowd, as can Gipsy (crowded anyway) and the other
+Triangle District clubs for dance night, and the late night Friday
+gambling can always be a big group (more fun that way, anyway).
+Satuday night show is no problem, and RHPS would welcome more patrons.
+
+> I hate to turn people down, but I don't see any way we can give something
+> that will be fun and rewarding if we get an unmanageable crowd.
+>
+> Lemme know what you think.
+
+Right now, I'm not real worried, but let's definitely keep in touch and
+plan ahead.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Summary Schedule of Activities:
Date Day Time Activity
========== ========= =========
Apr 30 Tue Morning
Afternoon Milano's Welcome Dinner
Evening Pre-DLV get-together
May 01 Wed All day Blond Hair Day
Morning
Afternoon Hidden Woman Open House
Evening Dinner and Welcome celebration
After Karaoke, Goodtimes
Later Slumber Party (and swap meet)
May 02 Thu Morning Air tours
Afternoon Glamour Boutique Open House
-or- Swimming party
Evening LaFemme (production show) MGM Grand
After Limo tour
May 03 Fri Morning Golf (See notes about golf mailing list)
Afternoon Dinner (Cafe Luna)
Evening Goodtimes Annual Mixer
Late Night Dance Night
May 04 Sat Morning
Afternoon Mall Crawl
Evening La Cage (Frank Marino) Riviera
After Cafe Luna and club tour
May 05 Sun Morning
Afternoon Side trip, Valley of Fire
-or- English High Tea
Evening Buffet dinner, Palace Station
Farewell Get-together
This schedule is tentative and not complete, subject to change.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Tentative DLV 2001 schedule:
as of Mon Mar 4 22:59:46 CST 2002
. . . . .
Tuesday, April 30:
Activity Name : Welcome dinner
Possible "Timezone Options" : Tu, 5:00pm
Location or Venue : Milano's
Expected Dress : Casual (moderately dressy ok)
Expected Cost (If any) : $5 - $15 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 30
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Casual Italian, American, Greek, Mexican
...
Activity Name : Pre-DLV get-together
Possible "Timezone Options" : Tu, 7:30pm
Location or Venue : Flex
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : One one's own for drinks and munchies
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 50
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . .
Wednesday, May 1:
Activity Name : Hidden Woman Open House
Possible "Timezone Options" : We, PM
Location or Venue : Hidden Woman Boutique
Expected Dress : About anything
Expected Cost (If any) : $10 for wig instruction
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Wig instruction optional
...
Activity Name : Dinner and Welcome Celebration
Possible "Timezone Options" : We, Ev
Location or Venue : Hamburger Mary's
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : $5 - $12 per person plus drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 60
Organiser Required and who : Yes
Comments :
...
Activity Name : Karaoke
Possible "Timezone Options" : We, later
Location or Venue : Goodtimes
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : Food and munchies on one's own.
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca. 70
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : After Welcome Celebration
...
Activity Name : Slumber Party
Possible "Timezone Options" : We, Late
Location or Venue : Residence Inn
Expected Dress : Whatever
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 30
Organiser Required and who : Yes, LeeAnna
Comments :
...
. . . . .
Thursday, May 2:
Activity Name : Air tours
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, AM
Location or Venue : Henderson Executive Airport
Expected Dress : Casual, boymode or girlmode
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : 3 6 9 12 ...
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Densie, Gina
Comments :
...
Activity Name : Glamour Boutique Open House
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, Aft
Location or Venue : Glamour Boutique, 714 E Sahara
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for purchases
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca. 50
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
Activity Name : Swimming party
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, PM
Location or Venue : Mindy's
Expected Dress : Casual/beach/swim
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 20
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Mindy
Comments : Food and drink
...
Activity Name : LaFemme
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, Ev
Location or Venue : MGM Grand
Expected Dress : Nice casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : $49 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) :
Organiser Required and who : Yes
Comments : Limo tour to follow
...
Activity Name : Limo Tour
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, after show
Location or Venue : Las Vegas Strip
Expected Dress : Nice :)
Expected Cost (If any) : $15 pp
Maximum Numbers (If any) : 7, 14, 21 ...
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Aiko, Yvonne
Comments : Delmar, etc.
...
. . . . .
Friday, May 3:
Activity Name : Golf
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 10:00am
Location or Venue : Golf course {duh}
Expected Dress : Casual or athletic, boymode or girlmode
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : 4 8 12 16 20 24 ...
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Mindy
Comments : Details TBA
...
Activity Name : Dinner
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 6:00pm?
Location or Venue : Cafe Luna
Expected Dress : Nice casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for dinner and drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 50
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Leah
Comments : Time may be adjusted
...
Activity Name : Annual Mixer
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 7:30pm
Location or Venue : Goodtimes
Expected Dress : Casual to modrerately dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for drinks and munchies
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca. 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
Activity Name : Dance Night
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 11:30pm
Location or Venue : Gipsy, et. al.
Expected Dress : Whatever
Expected Cost (If any) : Cover and drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . .
Saturday, May 4:
Activity Name : Mall Crawl
Possible "Timezone Options" : Sa, 12:00n
Location or Venue : Various
Expected Dress : Casual, boymode or girlmode
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for what is purchased
Maximum Numbers (If any) : None
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Annie
Comments : Belz, Boulevard, possibly Primm
...
Activity Name : FI Show, La Cage
Possible "Timezone Options" : Sa, Ev
Location or Venue : Riviera
Expected Dress : Nice casual to very dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : $39 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) : Ca 100
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Annie
Comments : Frank Marino
...
Activity Name : Cafe Luna and Club Tour
Possible "Timezone Options" : Sa, Ev
Location or Venue : Cafe Luna, et. al.
Expected Dress : About anything
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own food, drink, cover
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Meet at Cafe Luna following La Cage
...
. . . . .
Sunday, May 5:
Activity Name : Side trip
Possible "Timezone Options" : Su, PM
Location or Venue : TBD
Expected Dress : Casual, boymode or girlmode
Expected Cost (If any) : Possible donation for park fee
Maximum Numbers (If any) : Capacity of vehicles
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Annie
Comments : Valley of Fire
...
Activity Name : High Tea
Possible "Timezone Options" : Su, Aft
Location or Venue : TBD
Expected Dress : Nice
Expected Cost (If any) : $15 or so
Maximum Numbers (If any) :
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Mindy
Comments : A rawther special afternoon
...
Activity Name : Buffet Dinner
Possible "Timezone Options" : Su, 5:30pm
Location or Venue : Palace Station
Expected Dress : Casual recommended
Expected Cost (If any) : $7.95 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca. 50
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Meet at top of escalator, 5:30pm
...
Activity Name : Farewell Get-together
Possible "Timezone Options" : Su Ev
Location or Venue : Flex
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On ones own for drinks and whatever
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 120
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
This is the Diva Las Vegas 2002 organizational list.
Diva Las Vegas 2002
April 30 - May 5, 2002
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2a23 : Tue Jun 04 2002 - 07:48:36 CDT