Subject: dlvorg Planning, thoughts, questions ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Sun Sep 30 2001 - 00:11:44 CDT
In this mailing:
This mailing
DLV 2002 *WILL* go on
Admirers, etc.
DLV 2002 and N+I
Skydiving
Potential headcount
Carrying On
Going Blonde
Comments
Costume night
Blonde Night
Regent and Kenny
Summary Schedule of Activities
Tentative DLV 2001 schedule
Administrivia
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This mailing:
Wow, lotsa activity this week, on this list, at least. Still, not one
single query or list addition on the main list this week, which is
highly unusual.
Still, it looks like there is lots of interest in keeping on track
toward DLV 2002.
There are a couple very important issues brought up in this mailing,
and feedback and comments would be appreciated.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DLV 2002 *WILL* go on:
>>I'll be sending out a note in the September-October mailing to the
>>effect that DLV 2002 will go on, for better or for worse, with a small
>>group or a large crowd.
>I agree this is the only thing to do. We can't let the terrorist's win
>this one. To cancel would only give them what they want.
>I still feel so bad. Kind of vascilating between sadness and anger. I
>don't know what I can do, but I feel going on with plans is the best
>thing we can do.
>One thing you might want to consider is some kind of a benefit event
>where the proceeds would be donated to help victims of the tragedy.
>Maybe a benefit show or something.
>Thanks for listening and God Bless America!
Thank YOU! It's still full speed ahead as far as I'm concerned.
As far as a benefit activity, not to sound like a broken record or stuck
CD, but yes, it can happen if somebody takes the initiative to organize
it and make it happen. It could possibly be an adjunct to any of several
things already on the calendar.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Admirers, etc.:
Michelle writes:
>Admirers, Partial Dressers and other non normal transgendered modes!
>Firstly it seems odd to even discuss this. To normal society CDers are
>odd so to even worry about what some TG or non-TG people may choose to
>wear is probably a wee bit hypocritical.
>While I don't see it as an issue I think others may and therefore I
>propose that we have a formal discussion and then call for some sort of
>vote to confirm or refute the general view of the group.
>1. Should we accept "CD Admirers" as part of the "official" DLV group,
>and if so, should we impose any conditions?
>2. Should we accept "Partial Cross Dressers" as part of the "official"
>DLV group, and if so, should we impose any conditions?
>3. Should we accept all classes of TGers without reservation or
>condition and ignore specific groups?
Ok, here are my comments on each of your points. Let's hear what the
others have to say.
>1. Should we accept "CD Admirers" as part of the "official" DLV group,
>and if so, should we impose any conditions?
Yes, we should, as we have in the past, and as we have accepted anybody
who identifies with the theme of DLV.
Only condition I would suggest would be the one we've had as long as
we've been meeting, that being "dress and act as a lady or gentleman,
whichever you prefer". This condition, of course, applies to all, not
just to those identifying as admirers.
Admirers do have a very bad reputation, and this is brought on partially
by the lack of social skills of some of them. My first few encounters
with admirers back in the 70's were very negative.
However, most of us learn that admirers can be perfect gentlemen (or
ladies). Star Ranger of Tg Galaxy (http://www.tggalaxy.com/) comes to
mind immediately as somebody who calls himself an admirer and is
well-respected within our community.
>2. Should we accept "Partial Cross Dressers" as part of the "official"
>DLV group, and if so, should we impose any conditions?
Here's where I start having difficulty.
On one hand, feel very strongly about non-exclusion. I think DLV, as
well as most other groups, will self-regulate. I don't wanna become
obsessed about the exclusion of 1-2 "bad" people (whoever they may be)
for fear of driving out all the "good" people (whoever they may be).
On the other hand, I don't think it's appropriate for people to wear
obvious mixed-mode outfits, skag-drag (or various other dysphemisms),
blatant fetish wear, etc., at our general-public activities.
I would hope that gentle peer pressure and concern/respect for the
feelings of others, would work, as opposed to such things as draconian
dress codes.
Taking a trip to the real world, for our general public activities, I
see the only acceptable forms of dress to be a serious attempt at either
complete boymode or complete girlmode.
As we've mentioned, there is considerable latitude in what is considered
complete boymode or complete girlmode.
For some of our less public ones, however, such as RHPS or even some of
our things in GLBT venues, maybe some variation is appropriate.
Comments?
My suggestion is we continue with our guidelines of dress "appropriate
to the time, place and circumstance of each activity" as well as
continuing with general dress suggestions for each activity.
>3. Should we accept all classes of TGers without reservation or
>condition and ignore specific groups?
Yes, we should accept all people within and surrounding the TG spectrum,
excluding no individuals or groups. Period.
Comments on any of these?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DLV 2002 and N+I:
>I would like to make an observation about DLV 2002 and N+I.
>It seems to me that events such as Comdex and N+I are at real risk
>because of the concentrated number of people in one location, the
>general down turn in the economy and perhaps the trend for these shows
>being less successful in recent times.
I see your concerns in two areas, one being security, the other being
cancellation.
I know security concerns are being addressed by the LVCVA. N+I is not
the largest show in Las Vegas, and certainly less visible than many.
Such things as some of the Nascar events, Comdex, of course, the
National Finals Rodeo, even CES will be far more visible than N+I.
As far as national/world mainstream media, N+I gets very little exposure,
as it's though of as just a bunch of geeks and geekbabes doing their
thing. :)
>From my perspective if there is no N+I then coming to DLV is MUCH more
>difficult. Maybe others will have similar issues.
True, but ...
I don't see a cancellation in the cards. The Las Vegas N+I is the
flagship show of the Key3Media N+I group. If things are gonna be
cancelled due to downturn or non-interest, it's gonna be some of the
non-LV events. The Las Vegas N+I could easily be successful at 1/4
its current scale.
Ditto with Comdex (also Key3Media). I see Comdex Atlanta and some of the
non-US ones going before the November LV one. Let's see what the turnout
is for the one coming up, it could give us a clue as to what may go on
at next May's N+I.
>And on a personal note. I know that most of the group members are based
>in the USA. I want to offer my sympathy and support for all of you for
>the events in New York and Washington. While NZ is a relatively
>powerless and non military county, I can tell you the country is almost
>100% behind any US efforts to deal with terrorists.
Thank you, Michelle, we appreciate it.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Skydiving:
Denise writes:
>Skydiving news (Diving Las Vegas? ) The current rates are:
>For outdoor (real) skydiving, a first-time lesson is $200. This
>includes all necessary preflight instruction and a tandem jump from
>10,000 ft. MSL. A $25 deposit is required for the reservation.
>For indoor skydiving, your first "jump" is $45, and if you enjoy that,
>a book of 5 tickets for $120.
>If anyone is interested in skydiving, indoor or outdoor, please let me
>know your prefernce via the list or you can email me, dmcrack@home.com.
>This is just a head count for now, no reservation or commitment
>required.
Ok, thanks, Densie. Please think of when this might fit in the
schedule.
Also, do you know if the jump site is accessible, so that it would be
possible to go out there with That Damn Camera<tm> and get some shots
of the action?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Potential headcount:
>>As everybody knows, all kinds of events (both t* and otherwise) in the
>>immediate to near future have been postponed or cancelled. Reasons
[snip]
>Don't you think there could be some back-lash that will help us, if
>things this Fall and Winter all get cancelled, or people are afraid
>do go anywhere, we might get the crowd that they would have got
>otherwise, maybe?
I don't know. That has yet to be seen.
All I know is there are many cancellations and postponements both t*
and non.
From a DLV perspective, queries and mailing list additions essentially
stopped on September 11 and have not resumed to any normally expected
level.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Carrying On:
Tina writes:
>>I'll be sending out a note in the September-October mailing to the
>>effect that DLV 2002 will go on, for better or for worse, with a small
>>group or a large crowd.
>While it is impossible to read the future, I think that your intention
>is a good one. Carrying on with life, even the fun parts, after the
>last 10 days of national grieving is an important and psychologically
>healthy thing to do. Giving up the essence of who you are wouldn't be
>right.
>>As everybody knows, all kinds of events (both t* and otherwise) in the
>>immediate to near future have been postponed or cancelled. Reasons cited
>I didn't go out dressed for a week afterwards because I was sad and
>didn't feel like it, but then I decided I couldn't let others dictate
>my life. Things were pretty subdued the last few days at the places I
>go, but generally there was an attitude to carry on. At heart, I am a
>t* girl. Some people hate me for that, while others love me.
>Generally, people were glad to see me and I was certainly glad to see
>them.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Going Blonde:
Tina writes:
>I wrote most of my DLV Blonde Day comments before 9/11. Obviously, in
>retrospect, they seem a little frivolous right now. But, it is OK to
>want to have fun in life. It is part of being human. More on Going
>Blonde next week.
Actually, I don't see anything wrong with something as frivilous as
Blonde NIGHT. (Notice the emphasis on the word "night".) :)
To many, DLV itself is frivolous. There's nothing wrong with enjoying
life.
I've even been thinking of some kind of hook to encourage people to
participate in the blonde thing. Maybe something like a deal with Keys
where blondes get $1 off the buffet, or those non-blonde pay a $1 extra
"blonde tax" or something.
<lol> Maybe it would work better if we said blondes must pay the $1
extra. {ducking and running} :) :) :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Comments:
>>I do think it's important to say that DLV will go on, for those who can
[snip]
>>Comments?
>Terrorist threats? High airfares? Who cares?
>I plan to be there even if I have to ride up in a rusty bicycle with
>an AK47 over my shoulder.
>I wish people would quit spazzing out over the terrorist attack.
>Although it is a serious matter, what happened happened, and that's it.
>If you cancel any of your plans or change your lifestyle, you have
>given the terrorists much more than they have taken from you. The
>purpose of their attack was to promote terror...don't let them win.
>>Yes, and you remember what happened to me the last time I tried on a
>>blonde wig. :)
>I haven't been able to do math lately anyway. I can write UNIX
>procedures and scripts, but I can't balance my checkbook without a
>calculator.
>Maybe we should have a brunette night, or a silver tinsel night, so I
>can wear a wig.
...
>>>So - given my desire to wear only minimal items of feminine clothing,
>>>would you at all object if I tagged along dressed only in heels, or
>>>perhaps heels and a long skirt? I'm not at all trying to pass, but I'm
>>>not trying to "gender f***," either.
>I can tell you that this would not bother me at all. I can't even
>remember the last time I wore a skirt. I usually go to work in jeans
>or pants, a polo shirt, flowered casual top or whatever I have in the
>closet, and house shoes.
>>close to either complete boymode or complete girlmode. As you've found
>>out, there's quite a bit of latitude in both. I mean, who really looks
>>at shoes. :)
>You would be surprised. When I wear my leopard-skin house shoes at
>work, nearly everyone I meet has some kind of comment. I don't even
>take the time anymore to try to tell them that I wear these because of
>arthritis in my feet, because nobody cares anyway. I just smile and
>say thanks, as if I had been complimented on my footwear.
>And, on the subject of activites, I think the skydiving may be back
>on. We finally got our VFR airspace back, with some restrictions
>around major public events and big cities.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Costume night:
>How about something like this. I know you always say that at Rocky
>Horror you can dress the way you want, no matter what it is. Not
>everyone goes for Rocky Horror.
>How about
>one night, at one of the safe bars, being a costume thing. Then, if
>someone wants to dress slutty, or wants to be a cheerleader, or a
>bride, or a hooker, or a maid, or a little girl, or a dominatrix, then
>they can get it out of their system and they might be more apt to
>dress more nor for the other things. It's an idea, anyway.
We've discussed a costume party (and related things, such as theme
nights) for a few years now, but nothing has ever been done about it.
Closest thing on the table would be our proposed Go Blonde NIGHT for
this coming DLV.
Looking at our schedule, nights are getting tight. One option would
be to expand the Blonde Night into a full costume night.
Comments?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Blonde Night:
>I like Tina's Blonde Night idea it sounds like a fun idea .. count me
>in. It also gives me a excuse....reason to try something I never
>considered up to now, and to get a blonde wig .... one probably on the
>darker side, that matches better with my skin tone.
>I have tried the lighter blonde colors and it didn't match very well.
>So....it sounds like there's another story behind all this... IS there
>another story behind this blonde idea?
Uh, not really ...
>I'm all 'ears' if you are willing to explain it to us curious people
>who don't know! :-)
Just Tina's idea for something different. I'll do it for a night, even
buy an inexpensive blonde wig if I can find one. Maybe the Wig Outlet
would be a good place. I guess I could always use it again to do Janet
at RHPS. :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Regent and Kenny:
They tell me (the ubiquitous "they") that the bankrupcy court has ordered
the Regent sold, involuntarily. As we found out, this is Kenny Kerr's new
venue, for now.
Film at 11.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Summary Schedule of Activities:
Date Day Time Activity
========== ========= =========
Apr 30 Tue Morning
Afternoon Milano's Welcome Dinner
Evening Pre-DLV get-together
May 01 Wed All day Blond Hair Day
Morning
Afternoon
Evening Keys Buffet Dinner and Welcome celebration
May 02 Thu Morning
Afternoon
Evening Female Impersonator Show
May 03 Fri Morning Golf
Afternoon Carluccio's Dinner (5:00pm)
Evening Goodtimes Annual Mixer
Late Night Dance Night
May 04 Sat Morning
Afternoon Mall Crawl
Evening Las Vegas "Legacy" show
Midnight Rocky Horror Picture Show
May 05 Sun Morning
Afternoon Side trip
Evening Farewell Get-together
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Tentative DLV 2001 schedule:
as of Sun Sep 9 10:57:58 CDT 2001
. . . . .
Tuesday, April 30:
Activity Name : Welcome dinner
Possible "Timezone Options" : Tu, 5:00pm
Location or Venue : Milano's
Expected Dress : Casual (moderately dressy ok)
Expected Cost (If any) : $5 - $15 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 30
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Casual Italian, American, Greek, Mexican
...
Activity Name : Pre-DLV get-together
Possible "Timezone Options" : Tu, 7:30pm
Location or Venue : T-friendly lounge TBA
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : One one's own for drinks and munchies
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 50
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . .
Wednesday, May 1:
Activity Name : Buffet dinner and Welcome Celebration
Possible "Timezone Options" : We, Ev
Location or Venue : Keys
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : $5 - $12 per person plus drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 60
Organiser Required and who : Yes
Comments : Light entertainment to follow.
...
. . . . .
Thursday, May 2:
Activity Name : FI Show
Possible "Timezone Options" : Th, Ev
Location or Venue : TBD
Expected Dress : Nice casual to very dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : Ca 100
Organiser Required and who : Probably
Comments : Frank Marino or Kenny Kerr
...
. . . . .
Friday, May 3:
Activity Name : Golf
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 10:00am
Location or Venue : Golf course {duh}
Expected Dress : Casual or athletic, boymode or girlmode
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) : 4 8 12 16 20 24 ...
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Mindy
Comments : Details TBA
...
Activity Name : Dinner
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 5:00pm
Location or Venue : Carluccio's
Expected Dress : Nice casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for dinner and drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 50
Organiser Required and who : Yes, Leah
Comments :
...
Activity Name : Annual Mixer
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 7:30pm
Location or Venue : Goodtimes
Expected Dress : Casual to modrerately dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On one's own for drinks and munchies
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca. 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : Possible need to change venue
...
Activity Name : Dance Night
Possible "Timezone Options" : Fr, 11:30pm
Location or Venue : Gipsy, et. al.
Expected Dress : Whatever
Expected Cost (If any) : Cover and drinks
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 100
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . .
Saturday, May 4:
Activity Name : Las Vegas show
Possible "Timezone Options" : Sa, Ev
Location or Venue : TBD
Expected Dress : Nice casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : TBD
Maximum Numbers (If any) :
Organiser Required and who : Yes
Comments : Legacy LV show or newer artsy show
...
Activity Name : Rocky Horror Picture Show
Possible "Timezone Options" : Sa, 12:00m
Location or Venue : Paradise 6 Cinema
Expected Dress : Anything goes (really)
Expected Cost (If any) : $4.50 per person
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 150
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments : HAS to be better than last year.
...
. . . . .
Sunday, May 5:
Activity Name : Farewell Get-together
Possible "Timezone Options" : Su Ev
Location or Venue : TBA
Expected Dress : Casual to dressy
Expected Cost (If any) : On ones own for drinks and whatever
Maximum Numbers (If any) : ca 120
Organiser Required and who : No
Comments :
...
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
This is the Diva Las Vegas 2002 organizational list.
Diva Las Vegas 2002
April 30 - May 5, 2002
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
One address for all items regarding this list, additions, removals,
changes, submissions, questions, etc.:
dlvorg@geekbabe.com <--- NOTE: all lower case
Please do not send binary attachments (photos, etc.) directly to the
list, as the list processor will not properly handle them. If you want
to send photos and the like, mail to: annie@annie.net
Archives of this list appear on the web at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org02arc/
To unsubscribe: Simply reply to this message with the word UNSUBSCRIBE
in either the Subject: field or the first line of an OTHERWISE BLANK
message body. The word "unsubscribe" (case is insignificant) should be
the only item in the subject field or the first line of the message,
justified to the left.
NOTE: WHEN UNSUBSCRIBING, THE FROM: LINE OF YOUR UNSUBSCRIBE MESSAGE
>>MUST<< HAVE THE SAME ADDRESS AS WHAT WE USE TO SEND TO YOU. IF IT
DOES NOT, THE UNSUBSCRIBE WILL FAIL, AND YOU MAY NOT GET A FAILURE
NOTICE. SPELLING COUNTS.
Please pay attention to the above. Many automated unsubscribe requests
fail for this reason.
To send material to this list: Send submission as regular e-mail to
the address: dlvorg@geekbabe.com
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This archive was generated by hypermail 2a23 : Tue Jun 04 2002 - 07:48:27 CDT