Subject: dlvorg Buffet, comments, activities, etc. ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Sun Jul 15 2001 - 00:04:13 CDT
In this mailing:
Buffet at Keys
Monique's comments
Activities, payment, etc.
Misc. comments
Vacation, activities
Tank tops
Administrivia
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Buffet at Keys:
Leah writes:
>I was out with Robyn of LVFT last night and we got on the subject of DLV
>and think maybe the following might be nice.....
>We think we can get Troy, the manager at Keys, to come up with some sort
>of food buffet at his own risk and at a very reasonable cost. Nothing
>too splashy, just some sustenance. Even if only 5 people ate I don't
>think he would mind as he can use whatever is left over as a daily
>special on their menu.
I think we can safely say we can get quite a few more than 5 to attend. :)
>If the Keys gathering could be pushed back a day or two to catch more
>arrivals it would be all the better.
Right now our calendar has not been written, so yes, this could be
about any evening.
>Maybe we can arrange for him to
>have a somewhat quiet form of entertainment so everyone can chat and
>mingle too.
Well, I know if we asked for a show of hands, one particular entertainer
would be named as first choice <vbfg> but the way entertainers move
around, I dunno if he will be at Keys next May. Yes, I agree that the
entertainment should not be that loud that nite.
>Again, no promises but he is very friendly to us when we are in there
>and he will be doing something similar for the Girl Talk Magazine
>get-togethers held there once a month.
>If you think something like this might be a good idea just let me know
>and Robyn and I will talk to him about it.
Yes, if you wouldn't mind being the front person for this, that would be
great. Our people love Keys, and I'm sure something like this would be
well attended.
I'll add this to the ever-growing list of ideas. Please start thinking
of when during the week this might be best. With the dinner and the
entertainment, this would likely be the feature activity of the evening.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Monique's comments:
>>>>>... to consider Tuesday, April 30, thru Sunday, May 5, ...
>>>My Vote is Yes.
>Annie, I concur with these dates as well. ... My Vote is Yes as well.
...
>>>>>I don't think they really gave a s... about shopping, air trips,
>>>It's not that they don't care, it's that they're too tired or not
>I think that there are some people who do care. I agree, as a
>niteowltress myself, I was more interested in evening activities
>than the daytime at DLV'01.
>But for DLV'02, after all the discussion and feedback I've read, I
>would be interested in doing the group shopping kinda of thing (at
>least going to the shops as a group).
>LV Fantasy Tours , IMO, has to be a MUST visit and really should be a
>planned activity Though I did not do the air trip or Hoover Dam trip,
>I've seen that those that did go had an AB FAB time. I don't think that
>DLV should be an evening only event.
>>>Something like Liberace's Museum, maybe? You could go meet at Good
>This is an idea that needs further looking into. What are the hours of
>the Liberace Muesum?
Something like 10-5, 7 days, iirc.
>This is something I would be interested in doing.
>If there is a good response from the general DLV'02 attendees, I think
>splitting up our group as suggested is a great idea.
This might be good on one of the weekday afternoons, as was suggested,
a three part thing, all optional, of course. A drink at Goodtimes (or
maybe several drinks), a visit to Liberace Museum, which could be done
in small groups, as people wanted, and a trip across the street to
LVFT, again as desired. Those who didn't want either Liberace Museum
or LVFT could get a good start on the evening at Goodtimes. :)
The afternoon could be followed by something like dinner at Milano's.
...
>>Those who want a t* convention have many options, some of which are
>>within a month or two of DLV.
>I totally agree with Annie here. This is what makes one of the things
>unique and exciting about DLV is that is does not follow the typical
>t-convention format such as Fantasy Fair or Southern Comfort. While I
>think these types of conventions are useful and helpful as well as I'm
>sure fun, I would hate to see DLV evolve into this typical format. DLV
>is a Social gathering with some scheduled events that girls can choose
>or not choose to go to. Let's keep DLV as a vacation, social and fun
>time....not a structured event.
>>>>I don't see a paid registration happening at all. We don't need it.
>>> ... and a vacation certainly has no need for a treasurer.
>>I agree.
>Ditto here as well. While one might think that a financial committment
>euqals less no-shows and cancellations, I'll tell you from firsthand
>experience that I made a financial committment to Southern Comfort 2000
>and got cold feet and forfited a chunk of change.
You are not alone at all. Every t* event I've ever been associated with
had these.
The cancellations I can understand, even the ones who say they are just
not ready for something like DLV. I'm concerned about those who
register, seem enthusiastic about DLV, and simply don't show.
I'm afraid some of this will always be with us.
>$'s does not
>necessarily imply that you'll have less no-shows. Yes, money is an
>incentive, but it's not a guarentee. IMO, DLV should remain a
>pay-for-you go event.
>>I'm also counting three (update: now 4, see below) explicit "not me"
>Make that 5 "Not Me's"!
>>A number of our people have reported shopping alone over the years
>>of DLV with no major incidents at all.
>I think 'dressing down' for daytime activities is something that all
>girls should seriously consider. After all, when is the last time you
>saw a genetic girl at the mall or in the grocery or drug store decked
>out in a glitzy formal dress or how I dress at nightime activities in a
>miniskirt n heels. Outside of Los Angeles, I've never seen that!
>I'll report back to the group on 'dressing down' in the next few weels.
>I'll be going out enfemme, driving enfemme during the 'daylight ours' as
>I'm hosting another girl that I met at DLV in Nashville in two weeks. My
>plans are to wear a pair of dressy slacks (not sequins either!) and a
>nice top. Upscale casual vs my usual evening wear of a miniskirt.
>I'll also be dressing down during the daytime activities at Southern
>Comfort 2001. So best I can offer up at this point is to report to the
>group my personal experiences as they occur. Stay tuned.
...
>>>2. I do have a Premier account with Paypal and use them exclusively on
>>>my auctions. I do also use them for payments for a business of mine
>I agree with Cat in this respect. Meeting room, or possibly getting
>tickets for shows, etc. would be bast handled by PayPal. I, like Cat,
>also have a Premier account with PayPal and I also have never had a
>problem with a transaction using them. This way, credit cards could be
>used to pay for a meeting room or show tickets or whatever events that
>need an advance payment.
>I think, however, that it is very important to make any of these
>transactions NonRefundable due to the flurry of registrations/
>cancellations etc. along with payment deadlines, which is dependent
>upon the show or event's deadlines.
>>From a meeting room perspective, I don't want to see any of our feature
>>activities moved from on-the-town venues to such a room.
>>The second is my concern that it might be (mis)used as a favored
>>gathering place, as a communal closet, to put it bluntly.
>>I'm also questioning whether it would be a good idea to use such a thing
>>as a meeting or staging area prior to the major activities. I see this
>My basic, and very basic initial thoughts on the meeting room. I see
>advantages and disadvantages. I see the meeting room as something that
>an inexperienced girl might want to go to as part of a way to get
>support, advice, whatever her questions may be about going out, how to
>dress in public (day and nighttime), makeup quuestions/pointers, this
>kind of thing.
>I would not want to see the meeting room to be a staging
>area for the very comments Annie has made (large crowds, a pre-DLV
>catered gathering, etc).
>Again, let's remember the perspective of DLV...its a Social event. In
>order to be social, one must get out and about, whether that is
>shopping, dinners, clubbing, dancing, air tours, etc. I do see the
>possiblilty that a meeting room might be of help to some girls. Maybe
>some girls don't want or are uneasy about a 'big sister' coming to their
>room to help them out. I know I wouldn't (speaking from several years
>ago before I went out in public).
>I do see both sides of the coin on the meeting room. IMO, this topic
>requires alot more discussion and exchange.
...
>One other thought along the overall DLV lines. Has there ever been a
>followup questionaire about what we'd like to see or not like to see.
>Say sent out to the DLV mailing list of attendees no later than 2 weeks
>after DLV ended. This way we could get an idea of likes and dislikes
>after the 'elation' period has relaxed but still fresh in our minds. I
>envision a 'canned' yes or no, or on a scale of 1 to 10, etc kind of
>questionaire but yet a freeform area as well for comments.
Yes, I have thought of doing some kind of an objective evaluation, but I
have always thought a subjective summary is more effective, IMAO, that
is. I sent out a list of questions shortly after DLV, look at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/dlv01arc/0034.html
Questions appear under the "Burning Questions" heading.
A good question to you (and the others reading) is there anything you
see missing from that set of questions that might be helpful as a
feedback item?
>Just a thought, but the more feedback we can get soon after DLV has
>ended, the easier it will be to organize the following year's event.
Feedback is most important. We had a very good response to those
questions. They are printed in the mailings shortly following the one
above.
Having been the person who has had to analyze evaluation questionnaires
over the years, I do agree that checkboxes and 1-10 rankings can
generate a lot of numbers which can be used to quantitatively analyze
something. However, under the principle that a picture is worth a
thousand words, I think a sentence is worth a thousand checkboxes.
>Also, more local help from Vegas would be useful since most of us don't
>live in Vegas.
We're starting to see more interest in helping to plan DLV from those in
the local Las Vegas area (as you will see in this mailing), and I'm glad
that is happening. Historically, it's been those from out of the area
who have been driving DLV.
The locals (they seem to prefer that term in LV, I know they hate it
when I refer to them as "townies" <bfg>) have been with us since day
one, but their attendance is much lower than I would expect. When we
analyze the numbers from the past DLV, plotting no-show vs. geographic
area, the graph is generally flat except for a sharp spike at "local to
Las Vegas". (About 60% of those who registered as local did not show.)
We've had lots of speculation over the years as to why the local
people are not as active as we might expect, but the fact is they are
showing up in higher numbers lately, and I think we agree that's a
Good Thing<tm>.
...
>Again, one final comment I wish to share with the organizers of DLV'02.
>Since DLV'01, I've not been out or so BUSY socially in this girl's life
>since DLV. Had I not attended DLV'01, I know I would not have been so
>socially active as a transgendered. This is why I think it is very
>important that DLV does not evolve into a clone of Fantasia Fair but
>remain strictly Social. We experienced girls are more than happy to be
>big sisters and support other inexperienced girls. That's a given. But
>let's not loose sight of what DLV is all about. A Vacation, A fun time,
>and a social time with our unique sorrority of sisters :)
It's comments like this that always give me that warm fuzzy feeling that
lets me know we're doing something right. I know DLV has changed lives
for the better, and I'm glad it has been a significant influence in your
life, and a fun one at that. :)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Activities, payment, etc.:
>>>You figure, everyone stays out well past midnight, and most everyone
>>>drinks. They're going to wake up about noon or so, not feeling the
>Well, there's one who will never make it as an airline pilot.
>>FYI, there *are* people who do give a sh*t about shopping, air tours,
>I have to agree, mainly because I go to DLV for the activities. It's a
>mistake to think that anyone else's idea of a good time is going to be
>the same as one's own, which is why Annie, in her wisdom, is open to
>suggestions from everyone.
>>I see DLV continuing on a pay-as-you-go basis for some time in the
>I'm glad to hear that because one of my biggest concerns about the first
>one that I attended was having to commit funds to something that I still
>hadn't completely made up my mind about. For those who have
>"coming-out" issues, I can see this being even more of a problem.
DLV is also very friendly to those who decide to attend at the very last
minute. Although there are some practical limitations for this, such as
show tickets, those who get in just under the wire can still do most of
DLV.
>>{gun show}
>>Not announced to the DLV group. Those who were gun enthusiasts kinda got
>>wind of it. I did see some bills posted on light poles advertising it.
>Yep...and we got up Saturday morning to do it. :-)
>>>2. I do have a Premier account with Paypal and use them exclusively on
[bobbitt]
>I have, and will not have anything to do with Paypal.
May I ask why?
I don't use Paypal, mostly 'cuz I'm suspicious of anything where I have
to punch in a credit card number on line.
I do think if Paypal (or whatever) is offered as a payment method for
show tickets and the like, an option of something like money order
should be given as well.
>>As I've said before countless times, I don't see a need for a meeting
>>room for DLV in its current model.
>I don't either. Can't we just meet at the events, like we've always
>done?
Yes we can. It appears to be the preferred method. It ain't broke, we
don't need to fix it.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Misc. comments:
>>Tuesday, April 30 thru Sunday, May 5 seems to be the most mentioned dates.
>OK with me...
...
>>Something like Liberace's Museum, maybe? You could go meet at Good
[snip]
>I haven't seen the Museum yet, so yes, I would be interested in it being
>a activity for late afternoon, early evening, with Goodtimes the before
>and after place to meet. Good idea!
...
>>>Some of the stuff in this last mailing was disturbing to me. I can see
>>>DLV moving away from being the great vacation between friends that it
>>>has been and toward becoming another tranny convention.
>>I don't see this happening, at least as long as I'm associated with it.
>Yes, I agree, keep DLV as it is now... a fun-filled vacation type event.
>>I don't see a paid registration happening at all. We don't need it.
>>I see DLV continuing on a pay-as-you-go basis for some time in the
>Yup .... I agree here also. Holding money can become a very big problem.
...
>>We do have to be careful of unwanted attention. It is indeed another
[whack]
>>Personally, I don't like to shop in a group. I prefer alone, or maybe
[whomp]
>I agree here also. If you helping/advising someone in purchasing items,
>I can see shopping together is important. Having a second opinion from
>someone I trust in their opinion and observation, for me, has always
>been welcomed.
>I like to go to shopping malls and look and even purchase items I've
>been looking for, or think its nice to have. Its a personal issue, it
>saves time if I'm by myself, for what I look for may be different from
>someone else.
>For me, I still have to get over the fear in going into a boutique or
>strictly femme type stores and purchasing or browzing at the items....
>and thats in boy mode. I've never done it enfemme, so you can guess what
>level I'm at.
Shopping is something that can be very addictive, but it can take some
getting used to. I think you will find it might be easier in girlmode.
>Because of the fear...I try very hard to get everything I need before
>the trip. I have limited funds and luggage space for new items, so I
>have to be careful that what I purchase and how it will be able to fit
>in the luggage. Purchasing clothing items can be expensive, depending
>on what is purchased, the brand, etc. I personally don't know the range
>of prices on many items, so I really don't know if I'm really saving
>money buying things in LV. What I like is that alot of items I look for
>are more available(quantity, quality, and variety of stores) in LV than
>back home
>Also, deciding how I fit and look in clothing items I'm thinking of
>purchasing takes longer than the time spend in a store's dressing room,
>and the item may look totally different on me when I take it back the
>hotel. If it doesn't work out, I then have to make time to return
>it...which takes alot of time that can be done doing something else.
>The only way for me to know that a dress is good for me, is that I've
>already tried on something that is +90% idenitcal to the one I'm going
>to buy, and that I know I will look OK in it and in the correct size
>that fits. So, its not that I DONT look, I do like to look, but I've
>become very cautious and reserved to what I buy. Deciding does take too
>much time, and will bore others who are just waiting.
>If I wait to buy items after I get to LV for DLV, I probably will NOT
>find it or may waste valuable time looking for it, when it could be
>spend going to a DLV event. Soo.... I try to get everything I think I
>will look passable in before arriving in LV.
>So what am I saying... Yes I like to shop and look around with others
>during the shopping events during DLV, but it may not be as a high
>priority if there was another activity or doing other things, for I will
>be bringing up what I think I will need to have for the whole DLV, and
>will purchase things that I might have missed or if items rips, or
>breaks, or becomes un-usable. And if I shop it would probably be in
>boymode, and alone, for I will hold back others that want to move on,
>and I don't want to hold them back because of me. We would also be on a
>time budget, so time is important.
>So in the discussion about breaking up and shopping individually is fine
>with me. It would be different again, if I shop with someone with a
>goal in mind, as in getting particular items, or creating or correcting
>a certain way I look, or buying basic necessity items.
>>You've got to remember, these are girls who have dressed in private all
>>their life and they don't have the slightest clue what to wear to a mall
>Yup, I'm one of them, but I think I can find casual clothes that will
>blend in, the voice is another matter altogether.
>>>It's also amazing how many real girls look damn good in jeans.
>>Very good observation! :)
>ditto here...
...
>>1. The ONLY area where I believe upfront cash might help would be to
>>secure a "hospitality" type room....something along the lines of a room
>If the interest is high enough, maybe arrange with Fantasy Tours or Mary
>Kay Cosmetics or Vegas Wigs(can't remember the shop's name that we went
>to on the last DLV) or other venues if they can provde a meeting type
>room or a room at their business and provide service and assitance for
>those who want it, in this area. Those who what to have a meeting room
>can meet using their facilities, and the person using their services can
>pay these businesses for their services or products directly.
I'm a bit confused by what you're proposing. These business don't have
meeting rooms other than their normal showrooms. I understand the idea
of the meeting room was to have someplace on premesis (in the hotel)
that is convenient and common.
Am I missing something here?
>Or...instead of a room, DLV could provide this as a event, and
>transportation to and from those business, for those who drive and will
>be participating in this activity, or DLVers can go on their own (a
>kinda progressive make-over day or selective theme shopping day, from
>one venue to another)?
...
>>>Also, I agree that DLV really needs to have a "socializing" type event
>>>on Friday and Saturday nights. It might occur before or after a show
>>>or something, but those for me are the most important functions of DLV.
>>And again, I agree, or, I agree with you agreeing with me. :)
>me too!
>>I'm also questioning whether it would be a good idea to use such a thing
>>as a meeting or staging area prior to the major activities. I see this
[snip]
>I agree!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Vacation, activities:
>>comments below, I think we can say with 100% accuracy that DLV will
>>remain a "vacation not a convention" for the forseeable future.
>Yay! (clapping hands excitedly and peeing on the floor)
/me grabs the mop.
>>It's almost the middle of July. In just over two weeks we would like to
>>be able to announce in the July-August update to the main list that we
>>have agreed upon a proposed set of dates for DLV 2002.
>Who is my date gonna be? I'm tired of the same old guy every day.
Uh, he joined us for a while on the limo tour. Don't wear your glasses. :)
>>>to see, a specific place in each hotel set up as a morning get-together
>>>for breakfast thing.
>The only problem I could see with the morning breakfast thing is that
>not everyone gets up at the same time, and if, for instance, I get up at
>10am and the breakfast is at noon, I'm not going to sit around and watch
>television (it takes me no time at all to get ready), I'm going to go
>down to the casino, play some VP and get comped a few drinks. Actually,
>now that I think about it, the breakfast might not be such a bad idea
>after all.
Very valid point about wakeup time, though.
>>>friendships etc. Nothing like a good ole' egg breakfast to stir up
>>>conversations and get the day going right.
>I agree. Keep your bran muffins and cereal and give me bacon and eggs,
>and that's only after I've had a few 7&7's to loosen up the joints, or
>was that a few joints to loosen up the 7&7's? I can't remember.
>>As for a paid registration, Michelle suggested that primarily as a means
>>of minimizing dropouts.
>That makes sense. If fewer people register, fewer drop out.
>>As for a meeting room, I still don't know. I still wonder what in the
>>heck I would ever use a thing for (do a demo of making boob goo maybe)
>How about a BDSM session?
Or maybe a BSD session. We could have the endless-loop debate of the
penguin vs. the devil. :)
>>>One glaring thing comes to mind. "DLV Crossdressing Party" should
>>>never be heard over a PA system or even in a loud voice across a room.
>*LMAO*
Just remember, I laughed and thought you were kidding about that "Oh
wow, my first time in a ladies room" incident. <semi grin>
>>>People within my circle of friends will probably never join in a planned
>>>shopping activity. But, that should be alright, and the ones who do
[cut-paste]
>>>don't expect us to go on a shopping trip, a tour of the dam, a climb
>>>around rocks, etc. It just is not us.
>I suppose skydiving is out of the question? Hmm....skydiving...
Actually, indoor skydiving (there is a place on Convention Center Drive)
has been suggested once.
>can I put that in as a suggestion for next year?
Yes, if you're serious, or, even if you're not. I'm already starting a
list of activity ideas. It's now on the list, serious or not.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Tank tops:
>>>fill out, if you know what I mean. She was wearing this cute little
>>>tank top with the words "Hot Item" in glitter across the front.
>ROFLMAO!!!!!!
>At our shop, the office people have had casual Friday for a few years,
>and went to casual anyday, with Friday being very casual Friday. There
>is this one girl, maybe 19-20, I know when we go out after work she
>is too young to drink, and she wears things like that. She has one
>that says "Hottie" and the other that says "You Wish". Yes, she gets
>a lot of attention from those of us in the back.
>I can imagine what would happen if our girls would wear something like
>that.
LOL
I don't know if I want to try to imagine. :) :) :) {ducking and running}
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Diva Las Vegas 2002
May, 2002, dates to be announced
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