Subject: dlvorg (lawyers) guns and money ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Sun Jul 01 2001 - 00:06:05 CDT
In this mailing:
Target practice
Schedule
Various comments
Money and DLV
Schedule, gun show, airplanes
Administrivia
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Target practice:
>>>(shopping and casino hopping)[snip]
>>>... or does this type of thing scare the hell out of them?
>Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! Some of them would love to
>go out shopping. I'm one of the most out and about people in my group
>and still I get nervous in everyday public.
>Then you take the new girl who is not only un-confident in public
>but having all kinds of questions about her whole inner self,
>put them together, then you get someone who is scared s...less of
>everyday public.
>>They want to dress up for
>>the everyday things, and dress up even more for the fancy things!
>Bullseye! That's two out of two! You qualify! In looking back at the
>people you got this year at Diva, and this isn't everyone, but I think
>the majority, you can say they were looking for a friendly place or
>places to dress, and dress-dress-dress they did.
>I don't think they really gave a s... about shopping, air trips,
>Hoover dam, Vegas tours and all that jazz! They just wanted to dress
>up-up-up.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Schedule:
>>>Revised Schedule
>>>Tue 30 Apr 2002 : PM : Meal
>>> Ev : Lounge / Get together
[snip]
>>I think we can consider this to be a
>>motion on the table to consider Tuesday, April 30, thru Sunday, May 5,
>>as the DLV 2002 dates.
>This works for me.
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Various comments:
Tina writes:
>>No. Late shows on Sunday seldom sell out. In fact, the booth next to
[clip]
>>Somebody (Tina?) told me that booth was one held by the house for the
>>local whales (fatcat high-rollers).
>Yes, that is what the box office staff told me the day I picked up the
>tickets. If you noticed, it was the only block of open seats anywhere
>around us. Plenty of open ones in the back, but not these prime booth
>seats. You do have to reserve early to be guaranteed great seats for
>this type of show.
>>>Had this been
>>>scheduled for mid week would the hotel / organiser be more amenable to
>>>flexible numbers?
>>It's my understanding that the showrooms that use that type of
>>computerized seat assignment program are VERY INflexible as to variable
[bobbitt]
>And this inflexible reserved seating approach is what the vast majority
>of showrooms use. I know it is a pain to pre-pay, but I just don't of
>any other way to guarantee GOOD seats in a GROUP at popular shows.
>Actually, the money order system I used in 2001 worked out pretty well
>with a minimum of hassles (for me) and no financial losses. Had
>problems with that in 2000, eating the cost of some tickets never
>picked up by DLVers.
>I always feel bad having to tell someone the day before the show that I
>don't have spare tickets, but I also have to ask myself: Can't they
>read? I do publish the deadlines way in advance and hammer on them in
>follow-up messages in the DLV newsletter. And I always tell last
>minute folks how to arrange to get their own tickets. So far, no one
>has ever done that.
>>>Finally on this subject, I appreciate that Tina has done a great job
>>>organising events like this over at least the past two years.
>>Yes, I agree. {in unison} Thanks, Tina! :)
>You're all quite welcome. :-)
...
>>Comments on the proposed schedule?
>I like the days (but then, I was already on record in favor of them.) Thanks
>to Michelle for putting up a straw man of events. Great job! Some work will
>need to be done there.
>For example, Wednesday is karaoke night at Goodtimes, so it won't be
>quiet like it is on Fridays. The bar would still love to have us, but
>there might be some friction between the karaoke singers and our large,
>constantly chattering group. We'd have to scream louder to be heard
>over the singers. In fact, as a serious karaoke singer myself (as are
>most of the karaoke regulars at Goodtimes), I know that there would be
>problems. I just hate it when people scream throughout my songs,
>unless they're screaming cheers of approval for me. :-)
>I like the idea of having a show on Friday night, particularly if it is
>an early one. With an early show, it is still easy to go dancing (or
>some other activity) afterwards. Of course, Friday is obviously a
>popular night with a high demand for tickets, so we're right back to
>our other discussions of how to guarantee seats.
There is most likely a lot of tweaking to do.
I have one concern, and we can discuss this as we get to finalizing the
day to day schedule. Like it or not, our best attended activities will
be those of the weekend. I would like to see the featured activity of
one of those prime weekend evenings be a strictly social thing, such as
the Goodtimes welcome gathering. We probably can't call it a welcome
get-together, since it will occur toward the end of DLV under the
proposed calendar, but nonetheless, I think it's very important to
have something like this featured prominently in our schedule.
There was at least one comment of disappointment in that our Saturday
evening schedule this past year consisted of only activities that were
spectator in nature, with no participatory socializing. I think we need
to consider this before filling up the two prime evenings with shows
and such.
>>>Swimming and boating have been suggested in lieu of the flying trips of
[chop]
>>Yes, boating has been suggested, and we already have one volunteer to
[whack]
>I can't wait to see my silicon boobs go flying out of my suit when I
>hit the water.
>Seriously, I want to encourage this activity, but explain why I would
>personally skip it. My big worry is sunburn and sore muscles. A bad
>dessert air burn (multiplied by the water effect) would just ruin my
>trip. (Yes, I know about sunblock.) I'm from Texas, where we live in
>the sun year-round, and I always perk up my tan before DLV, so that I
>can lay around the pool in LV. Even then, I limit my exposure to one
>hour daily, because the sun is so strong there. On the muscles thing,
>I water-ski about once a decade, and I know how my thighs and groin
>muscles always hurt afterwards. I'm getting older (no, really!!) and
>my muscles just don't bounce back fast anymore.
One thing I did check with Densie on is that their boat does have a
canopy. I've been told to avoid unnecessary prolonged exposure due
to a family history of skin cancer, so I share your concern but for a
different reason. I *love* to water ski though, although I haven't
done it for about 10 years.
>It is the somewhat the same rationale why I would skip rock climbing.
>I haven't tanned and waxed my legs (which are most T girls' best asset)
>just to scrape hell out of them on some rocks. I'm in LV to dress up
>and strut through casinos and night clubs.
Rock climbing doesn't interest me. Light fun hiking might, but I think
we don't have any significant interest for hardcore outdoorsy things.
One thing I do think is important, though, is variety. such things as
boating/skiing and air tours are great examples. We do need to throw
in a few non-bar non-show non-food non-gaming activities each year,
to keep a good balance, and to keep DLV fresh and vibrant.
>Really though, I do want to encourage these novel and exciting ideas.
>I didn't fly in 01, but I thought that it was a great idea, just as I
>think the boating is a great idea (just not for me).
Awwww, c'mon. You can wear a cute sundress and floppy hat. :)
(It's summertime, summertime, sum-sum-summertime. :)
...
>>The model of DLV does not require any up-front cash. Sure, somebody
>>could pump the funds for such things as drinks and show tickets through
>>a DLV account, but I don't see any reason for doing so.
>>If we get involved in the money-schlepping business, it is gonna
>>require a volunteer (other than me) to come forward and agree to take
>>care of the collection, the disbursement, and the accounting. (I am
>>not an accountant, nor do I play one on line.)
><cut and paste>
>>To call the burning question early in the game, is there anybody here
>>(and this would almost certainly have to come from the people who are
>>on this list) who is willing to step forward and volunteer to be kind
>>of a Treasurer/Co(n|mp)troller for DLV 2002?
>Not me , not me, not me.
>Still, I'm glad we're having these conversations. They are all good
>discussion topics.
>>If a more convenient method of payment is desired, for such options as
>>shows and the like (and if a volunteer, again not me, steps forward to
>>handle it) I'm sure something like Paypal or Billpoint or the like
>>could be used to allow somebody to pay by credit card or electronic
>>check.
I don't really know for sure. I know they are available for those who
sell stuff over e-bay and the like. I think it works kinda like this.
You and the buyer both set up Paypal accounts with some kind of
balance, which can be done via credit card. The buyer pays you by
debiting his/her Paypal account and crediting yours. You can then
withdraw your funds from your Paypal account, minus a certain handling
charge.
I don't know if this would be appropriate for such things as DLV show
tickets, though. Does anybody here actually use Paypal/Billpoint/etc.?
Checking with www.billpoint.com, it looks like they are limited to ebay
auctions, and sponsored by Norwest/Wells Fargo.
Checking quickly with www.paypal.com, it looks like users of the
"personal" Paypal accounts are limited to receiving $100 per month of
credit card payments. A "premier" or "business" level account would
most likely be required to handle show tickets. It looks like e-checks
and Paypal to Paypal account transfers do not count toward this limit.
>I haven't heard of these, but will keep my ears open. How do these
>systems handle transaction reversals?
On their website (Paypal), they say they immediately ding your account
for the amount of the reversal and it's up to you to follow up and
contest the reversal. They say they will not act as intermediary.
>In the USA, we have laws that
>allow us to contest credit card charges, and have them taken off our
>bills. What (other than ethics) would stop someone from reversing
>their show ticket charges a month after the show?
If I may digress ... Despite the perception, none of the major web
clients I've helped set up online cc payment for has ever reported any
significant problem with chargebacks. The trade papers consistently
report that almost all of the chargeback disputes for online purchases
have to do with "adult entertainment" or patently fraudulent charges.
Paypal says that *you* will be responsible for a chargeback due to
fraudulent card use.
...
>>>I arrived one day before DLV, but it was for prepping myself, as in
>>>getting over jet lag and a red-eye flight. I'm not sure if I would
[snip]
>In 2001, I arrived on the Wednesday afternoon of the first day, and had
>to rush like a crazy woman to get there to LV Lounge, just as it was
>breaking up. Never again for me. I'm going back to the old system of
>arriving 1 or 2 days ahead of time. Gives me time to get my nails done
>and get waxed in LV rather than before I go.
>>>Whenever you mention shopping at D.L.V., I get this vision of you
>>>walking down Northampton Mall (local mall here) leading a pack
>>>of 30 t-girls, all who are just following each other blindly the
[whack]
>Truthfully, I always had that same image also, in spite of Annies quite
>true assurances, and had to overcome that fear to go on the shopping
>trip in 2001. It really was quite pleasant.
Yes, everybody kinda scattered and did their own thing. I know you and
I browsed for a while, and I think a group of two was the most I ever
saw, except for maybe getting something to eat in the food court.
...
>>As I also think back (we had part of this discussion on line Friday
>>evening) to the first two years (1997 and 1998), I don't think anybody
>>even wore a long dress to the shows.
>That's because I hadn't started coming then. Thank God we've glammed
>up.
...
>>>Living here it is much simpler for me to move from event to event and
[munch]
>>>I can see that I would have a dilemma if I didn't live here with say,
>>>the buffet, and then dressing for the evening.....especially if I
[chomp]
>>>This may be a partial explanation for low attendance at the daytime
[crunch]
>>This brings up a more general question on timing. Is there a perception
>>that we scheduled activities too closely together? This year I don't
>>remember any major time crunches, but I'm not everybody.
>There was a crunch from the shopping going on to Keys. I dressed for
>the day-to-evening transition. Wore a dressy blouse and black slacks,
>but still wish I had the time to change to something fancier.
When I set this up, I was assuming (yeah, yeah, I know) that Keys would
be a more casual thing.
>>>They want to dress up for
>>>the everyday things, and dress up even more for the fancy things!
>I still feel that way, although I no longer consider myself new. I'm
>experienced!
>After all, we do have the word Diva in our name, and I come there to
>play the part (to the extent my broken down body still lets me). Of
>course, I also take the same attitude at any other tranny bar or
>activity I go into.
>>Do we see a demand for dress-up daytime activities, or
>>at least activities where non-casual dress is appropriate?
>What a good idea!! I don't have any specific suggestions yet, but I'll
>start thinking about it. I hope that others do too.
Hmmmm .... Why am I feeling in the minority here?
But seriously, gang, I think we've seen a shift in the needs and wants of
our people. As I think back (again) to the first couple years dressing
for the sake of doing so was not really what was going on. We did offer
a supportive environment in which somebody could dress as they wished,
but the emphasis was on the activities and enjoying each others company.
>Happy early 4th of July!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Money and DLV:
>>The model of DLV does not require any up-front cash. Sure, somebody
>>could pump the funds for such things as drinks and show tickets
>>through a DLV account, but I don't see any reason for doing so.
>Honestly, I can't see any reason for this either.
>Before I went to Diva last year, I honestly expected either someone
>sitting at a desk at Goodtimes asking for a Diva cover charge, or
>else someone bothering everyone for donations to fund Diva. Now
>that I know better how Diva works, I understand why you keep money
>out of the equation. I'm still totally amazed, and I applaud you
>for it, that it's grown this large and successful without money.
Well, DLV does involve money, but it's handled individually. Everybody
pays the airline, the hotel, they pay the hostess at the buffet, the
bartender at {wherever}, the box office (or Tina :) for the show, etc.
DLV is not cheap. I daresay most of our people spend the better part
of a kilobuck to attend.
However, I see two advantages of our current model of everybody pays
as they go:
1. No overhead. Every dollar paid directly benefits the participant.
2. Nobody is required to pay for things they don't need or don't want.
The typical convention/conference model of pricing does involve several
options or levels of participation. (Jeez, look at Networld+Interop for
a very complicated schedule of options.) In almost all cases, you end
up paying for, or supporting, something you don't use. Very seldom is
there true ala carte pricing.
I admit some of this is my own preference. I like to have options, and
others have told me the same.
Good example of this is the food at the mainline t* events. I seldom if
ever hear raves about it, and I know the hotels gouge like hell for
those meals. Yes, the rubber chicken or leather sirloin at the Annual
Us-And-Them-Banquet<tm> is usually edible, sometimes even bordering on
enjoyable, but I've lost count of the times I wish I just could have
ordered off the menu.
With a group of 20-30, I would much rather see a Milano's or buffet
thing, than I would a catered thing with a limited menu. We don't have
to keep doing Milano's and Sahara buffet, but I think everybody gets my
point.
>>If we get involved in the money-schlepping business, it is gonna
>>require a volunteer (other than me) to come forward and agree to take
>>care of the collection, the disbursement, and the accounting. (I am
>>not an accountant, nor do I play one on line.)
>I'm not either. I can barely keep my Visa and Checking in balance.
>I don't think it will take someone with a degree in Bookkeeping to
>manage the money for Diva, just someone who's honest and reliable,
>and no, I'm not volunteering.
Probably our biggest problem with doing something like this would be
finding a competent and willing person to do it. I have a feeling that,
like so many other volunteer positions, those most qualified to do this
have absolutely no desire to do so.
I'll call the question again: Is there anybody on this list who
believes he/she is qualified to act as a Treasurer/Co(mp|n)troller
for DLV, and is willing to step forward and volunteer to do so?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Schedule, gun show, airplanes:
>>Remember, we want to have the days of DLV proposed by the end of July
>>and set by the end of August. I think we can consider this to be a
>>motion on the table to consider Tuesday, April 30, thru Sunday, May
>>5, as the DLV 2002 dates.
...
>Seconded and one vote.
So seconded and noted. :)
Unless things change, this will probably be my vote as well.
>>>One was the gun show that happened on Saturday and Sunday. For gun
[bang]
>>IMAO, anybody who is confident enough to go to a gun show has passed
>>the out.in.public course and should be able to go anywhere, anytime.
>I went to the gun show En Gina and nobody gave me the slightest amount
>of grief. The trick is be confident, be yourself, and spend some
>money. Dressing as a woman would at such an event (or anything)
>doesn't hurt either. Don't be worried about what others think about
>you, they're probably idiots anyway. Have fun. Nobody goes to this
>much trouble to be miserable.
...
>Also, I'll probably bring my airplane again next year, so if we want
>to tour we can.
Ok, keep this in mind as we discuss the schedule in depth. Also think
of how well you thought the Friday morning timeslot worked.
>Hopefully I can stay longer. Personally I only
>missed one gathering that I knew about in the several days, I was
>tired after flying, if you go to Vegas to be at DLV, be at DLV. I
>arrived as me and stayed that way until I had to go home,
>unfortunately I had to fly home En Male, (the most depressing part).
>But that was only because my airplane is located at a business that
>rents it out and they didn't need to know about me. (I know feeble
>excuse).
...
>The only change that I'd suggest is that we have a night at a more
>mainline club, with good music. You just have to dance. The
>cigarette smoke drove me nuts, but hell, I don't enough Gina time as
>it is, I guess I'm just spoiled by living in Smoke free California,
>(no lights or electricity either, but what the hell).
Do you have any examples of what you might consider a more mainline
club? We did have people go to Studio 54 and gave a reasonably good
report.
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Administrivia:
This is the Diva Las Vegas 2002 organizational list.
Diva Las Vegas 2002
May, 2002, dates to be announced
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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