Subject: dlvorg Feedback, followups, suggestions, etc. ...
From: Annie (annie )
Date: Sun Jun 13 1999 - 21:54:39 CST
In this mailing:
Generalities:
Feedback and suggestions:
Administrivia:
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Generalities:
The concensus I've been hearing is that most everyone is in favor of
keeping the informal vacation-not-a-convention format, as opposed to
turning this event into yet another clone of Fanfair. Although it's not
entirely my decision, I'm highly in favor of keeping this format.
Margeth's last words to me, iirc, were along the line of "Don't make
this another {Colorado Gold Rush}". IMAO, if people want the
traditional t* conventions, there are already enough of them. Just
throw a dart at a calendar and you will be within a few weeks of one
somewhere.
We will most likely see some growth again next year. I don't know if
it will again double in size, as it has the past 2 years, but I don't
see it becoming large enough to be unmanageable, at least for a few
more years.
Overall, I think everything went very well. There were very few
problems that could not be dealt with easily. There were no major
incidents, and no problems or conflicts between people that I am
aware of.
Schedule:
I would like to put this issue to rest as early as possible, since it
is one that can easily be debated ad nauseam, and approached that in
1998 for a while.
Again, it's not entirely my decision, but my general thought is that
unless there is a highly compelling reason for change, we should
continue our tradition of a mid-May event, immediately following
Networld+Interop. (Highly compelling meaning either a significant
benefit to the community as a whole for moving it, or a significant
logistical problem with the intended dates.)
If there is a demand for something like this at another time on the
calendar, it's always possible to have another event like this at
another time of the year, if somebody takes the initiative to organize
it. Las Vegas is open 24*7*365, and everything we did is available at
most every point on the calendar.
Likewise on the suggestion (don't really know if it was serious or not)
that next year we hold it in a different location. If there's a demand
for something like this elsewhere, it can happen as long as there is a
demand for it, and somebody is willing to organize it.
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Feedback and suggestions:
I would like to share with you some of the various feedback and
other items that have come in since the event. I've taken the liberty
of commenting and responding a few times.
This is a bit long, but I suggest you read all of it to get a handle
on what the scope of thoughts and feelings is ...
...
(in no particular order)
>For 2000, I had a few ideas that are a little crazy, but could be
>really fun for people in the right frame of mind. They do involve
>going out more into the general. Some of them emphasize glamour things
>that might appeal to girls:
>1). Take the backstage tour at Folies Bergere at the Tropicana to see
>showgirl costumes, dressing rooms, etc.
I really was not aware this is available. Do you have information on
it? Prices? Times?
>2). Attend one or more evening shows that really emphasize the
>glamourous showgirls (e.g., Folies, Splash, whatever that midnight
>adult show is at the Golden Nugget, etc.).
This might be a very good idea. Follies is at the Tropicana and Splash
is at the Riviera. Both are known for being GLBT-friendly, and both
shows are reasonably-priced, IIRC. I saw Splash around 1990, but I
would not mind seeing it again.
>3). Attend a party at the Red Rooster swingers club. They welcome all
>sexual orientations and would be receptive to having a group come in,
>particularly on a slow night like Thursday or Sunday. I've gone over
>for the Saturday night dances with live bands, and always been quite
>welcome. Their dance floor is always open any night of the week. We
>could probably arrange for a group discount on the steep cover charge.
>(It's a private club in a converted mansion with high operating
>expenses.)
Uh, what is it, exactly, that you get for your $40 (is this
price correct?) that you would not get by going to a regular
nightclub/lounge/casino or whatever?
What kind of band, music, atmosphere?
Any food/drink/whatever included in the $40?
Since everything in our current format has been optional, this might be
something we could put on the slate for those who want to do it.
However, my gut feeling says that unless it's something that is
*REALLY* special, most of the group will be turned off by the $40 and
will opt out.
Comments, gang?
>4). Now this next idea is particularly naughty and probably won't
>appeal to everyone: rent a private party room at a strip club and have
>one or two strippers teach us how to do striptease. With a group as
>large as ours that drinks as much as we do, getting a private room
>shouldn't be much of a problem. We would have to tip enough to keep
>the dancers interested (probably $100-150 per hour per stripper). If
>20 people would ordinarily spend $30 apiece for a casino show, that
>same $600 would buy a fair amount of time from a pair of dancers.
Uh, well, uh, comments? This would take somebody to do some legwork to
coordinate, plus a commitment from X people to work.
Are others interested in something like this?
>5). Go to an LV wedding chapel and have a fake wedding. We could all
>wear white. :-)
Somebody suggested something like this for 1998, but it never happend.
Comments?
>6). Put on our cowgirl boots and go country line dancing.
Hmmmmm.... is there a bar/club in the area where this would be
appropriate? I'm not aware of any. If any local people know, please let
us know.
I'm really not a C&W fan myself, but one of my fave places to go for
people-watching is a (t-friendly) country bar in Omaha. All types of
people go to those places, not just the stereotypical ones.
>7). Go in a big group to a karaoke bar and group-sing 60's girl group
>songs (Supremes, etc.).
Uh, I'll watch (er, listen). <big snotty grin> :)
>8). Have one large group dinner at a public restaurant (could be right
>out front or could be in a secluded dining room). A group as large as
>ours would get a restaurant manager's attention. (Many of these ideas
>emphasize using our joint buying power.)
This has been suggested, and the only thing holding it up would be for
somebody to volunteer (HINT! :) to coordinate such a thing.
If I may digress here, this is one thing I've been avoiding doing
myself, mostly cuz of the experiences and feedback I've heard regarding
the food at many of the more structured t* events (as well as mainline
conventions and conferences). Seems like nobody is really happy with
the food, me being one of them.
One event that people keep saying they DON'T especially like about the
t* conferences is the obligatory Annual Us And Them Banquet <tm> with
overdone leather sirloin or rubber chicken, technicolor linguini, and
elmer's glue salad. (... and what many people never see is how badly
the hotel gouges for those meals!)
Anyway, I'll quit bitchin about this point. If anybody wants to take
the initiative to plan such a thing, I'm all for it. Any volunteers?
...
>Don't change a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was the most perfect weekend
>of my life!!!!!!!!! Thank You!!! Thank You!!!! Thank YOu!!!!!!
You're very welcome. :) (! ** n)
...
>Now these aren't really complaints, just observations. Two things. The
>traffic was awful! Lane changes with no signs and streets that change
>names in the middle of the block! I know you can't do anything, but
>it's real bad! And crowded!
I do agree that traffic was bad at times, but it was not nearly as bad
as I've seen it in LV. Las Vegas is unique in that an unusually high
percentage of the drivers in some areas are not really familiar with
the roads. This is partly responsible for the mess on the Strip and
some of the conspicuous cross streets.
We also had some confusion as to where to park for a few of the events.
One person parked in a pay lot at Fremont & 4th for the Kenny Kerr show
(several blocks away) while free parking was available in the Plaza lot
just south of the building.
>Second, there's just too much to do and not enough
>time to do it in. Don't schedule so many things so close together so
>we can have a little time just to relax, please.
I honestly didn't think we were overloading on activities, but you're
not the only one who has mentioned this, and I began to feel overloaded
myself on Monday.
Feedback, gang? Did you think we OD'd on planned activities, had just
about the right amount, or didn't have enough? Did we allow enough time
between activities?
My concern was that I didn't want anybody (especially the newcomers and
those unfamiliar with LV) to have a shortage of things to do and become
bored or frustrated. I thought (and still do) that it's better to have
things planned, and let people opt out of them, than to have much free
time and to try to get x people to agree on the spot as to what to do.
Comments, gang?
...
>Here are some answere to your questions grom my side:
>You had concerns about people showing up only one night, and I was one
>of them. With the hours I worked leading up to DLV and dropping my
>wife off at the airport, I was extremely worn out that night. I was
>unable to attend other nights for 2 reasons. 1) I didn't have a
>sitter except for Fri night, she backed out on me on Sat.. :( 2) I
>live and work here at a fortune 50 company in management. I would
>hate for someone to see me. Even though the possibilities are small
>it still bothers me. I really like the group and wished I was more
>awake and active on Fri.
>Thanks, and I look forward to seeing everyone next year!!! If I am
>still living in Vegas that is.
We're looking forward to seeing you too! I was happy to see more of the
local Las Vegas (and surrounding area) crowd get active with the group
this year. For those who were not aware of it, we had people from the
Laughlin area and Pahrump as well as those from the immediate Las Vegas
area.
...
>I really enjoyed the outings you put together for DLV 99.
>I had a wonderful time, and wish I could have made it to more events.
>I had a wonderful time, thank you so much for organizing the whole
>thing and carting us around in the van !!!
Again, you are very welcome! :)
...
>We want to thank you for the time and effort you put in to make our
>trip to Las Vegas so much fun. It was so nice to meet so many nice
girls. Thank You
And again, it was my pleasure. :)
I agree about the adjective "nice". Everybody was just that. Not a
single jerk among us at all!
...
>I know your probably sick of hearing this, but I just want to give
>you one more BIG THANK YOU for all you did for all of us!
No, I'm not sick of hearing it. I appreciate every last one of these!
Again, you are very welcome. I would like to give my thanks to each and
every one of you (30-some this year) who were really the ones who made
DLV what it was.
...
>I know how you probably feel about "I told you so"'s, but I told you
>so. Born sales people, especially Mary Kay's, are resilient. I don't
>think that was the adjective I used, but that was what I meant.
I felt really bad about this, and I was really afraid we were gonna
burn a bridge with the non-turnout. Back in February or so, makeovers
were the hottest topic, and people were even worried about being able
to get one just prior to one of the shows, etc. Up until Sunday, I was
still sure we would have a good turnout for the planned Open House.
Again, I would like to apologize to Ronnie and Beth for the lack of
clients they had anticipated.
I would like to ask a question to the group: Did any of you visit any
of the vendors we had on our list? I know that one person went to the
Vegas Girl shop on Eastern, and another went to Serge's, but I didn't
hear of anything else.
Did anybody have any good or bad shopping experiences that they would
like to report? From my observation, everybody wanted to go to the
mainline and discount malls and not to the specialty shops that you
would normally think would appeal to the t* community. (I know one
couple wanted to stop at the Attic, but this was to have their picture
taken, not really to shop.)
Did anybody visit any of the salons or stylists that we had on the
list?
Did anybody visit any shops or services that we did not have on the
list that they would recommend to others?
I heard no negative reports about anything, so I assume that
everybody's shopping experiences were at least somewhat positive.
...
>I really enjoyed yesterday at the damn, right there at the dam site.
>Thank you for the incredible arranging and to Bob, for his stunning
>"presentation".
Yes, I agree!
I would also like to thank everybody who went for cooperating on the
dress issue for the dam tour.
This is something that we are very fortunate to have. This tour is more
extensive (and more personal) than the special "hard hat" tour that is
offered to the general public. The public "hard hat" tour costs about
$25 per person.
Thanks again, Bob!!!!!
...
>I loved it, Annie! Thanks! However, I can see how some girls would
>be scared to death. If it was five years ago, I swear all I would
>have done is stay in my hotel room and hide. I can see how some
>would be to scared to actually go out, hail a cab, and go to
>somplace they've never been to meet people they've never met.
It's ok to be scared, it's very natural. However, those feelings go
away very fast, as you and many others learned. Am I correct?
>A couple suggestions here
>
>1 Name tags or someting so we can identify who's with your group.
>Maybe just name and perhaps where their from.
What does everybody think? I know I forgot some names this time, and I
know I called somebody by the wrong name {blush} for about 30 minutes
before she corrected me. Maybe we're getting to the size where these
will be a necessary evil.
At several t* (and other) gatherings I've been to, there is frequently
griping about the request to wear tags or badges. However, at last
year's Fall Harvest there were quite a few crashers for one event,
enough so the hotel security guard had to stand at the door and check
name tags. I can see in that case that they were indeed necessary.
Comments?
>2 Maybe a badge for the leaders, something so you can tell who
>to ask questions to.
For another conference (non-t*) that I help organize, we have certain
peoples' badges printed on blue paper to identify them as somebody
who can answer questions. We turned down a motion to have the words
"ask me" printed as well. Maybe this is something we will need.
...
>A comment from Left Field here, if you don't mind. I've been on
>your list now, and would positively love to go, and fantazised
>about going, but there's no way I could really do it. I don't
>pass, and I' don't have the outfits that you would need to do
>this. I've got to really admire all of you. I've seen the pictures,
>and I know it's got to take a lot of guts, more guts than I ever
>have, to actually go through with it. I can imagine yu go thruogh
>all kinds of funny looks and taunts and teases, and I've got to
>really respect anyone who has the guts to put up with it.
Thanks for the feedback. Everybody is somewhat nervous at first, but I
think that goes away quickly for most everybody. As far as funny looks,
taunts, teases, etc., quite honestly, the most that happened were
double-takes, and these were mostly where we had a large group all in
one place. I intentionally watched members of the group from a distance
in many places, and I watched closely for this. It just didn't happen.
There were absolutely no cases of direct verbal or physical abuse,
period, none, nada, zippo, zilch!
I was a bit concerned one evening (rather very early morning) as the
group had been barhopping and there were a couple outfits that were
more exotic than usual. The group wanted to go to Hard Rock Hotel for
an early breakfast. The most I saw were a few double-takes. Everybody
simply glanced and then went back to gaming, eating, drinking,
whatever.
If you are concerned about passing, or about your comfort level, you
are always welcome to participate as brother. This year we had two
people who, at the beginning of the event, said they would remain in
boymode for the duration. Toward the middle of the weekend, both of
them felt comfortable enough to appear as sister.
Remember, if Tammy Fay Bakker can pass, so can you! Seriously, with
some attention to style and attitude, almost anybody can, indeed,
pass. You might not be a Barbie doll or a Shania Twain look-alike,
but you can be passable and presentable.
I can't think of a single person we had this time who could not,
if dressed appropriately for time place and circumstance, with the
right attitude, pass.
...
>Thanks again, Annie, I still wonder how you ever do it!
As I've said before, it's really not that difficult. The formula for
DLV is kinda like this:
1. Do enough cheerleading to get everybody in the same place at the
same time.
2. Set up a tentative schedule of things to do, all of which they are
free to do, or not to do.
3. Go and enjoy it myself.
That's it, really. :)
...
>there was no way I could get away for that time
>this month, but I really want to go with you guys next year. It's safe
>to say you'll do this again next year, right?
Although plans have yet to be made, yes, it's safe to say that it will
happen again next year. (I'll be there, anybody else joining me? :)
I think it's also safe to say that a good percentage of those who were
there this year will be back, and that we will have many newcomers,
for a significantly larger headcount
>Is it going to be the
>same or are you going to change it all around?
In this world, the only constant is change. :)
I would use the term "grow" rather than "change" to describe the
evolution of DLV over the past 3 years. Just how it grows and changes
for this next year has yet to be seen.
Schedule has yet to be set, but I think there is again a good chance
that it will again occur in May on the weekend following
Networld+Interop. (As of this time, I have not yet heard a solid date
for this.)
Exact length and days also has yet to be set.
Questions for the gang: Did everybody like the "Friday thru Tuesday with
options ..." timeframe? Is the length appropriate? Would you prefer
something longer? Shorter?
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*hugs*
annie :)
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