From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Thu Nov 12 2009 - 06:25:33 CST
In this mailing:
Org List
This mailing
HRC Motion seconded
Hotels
Prom/Formal proposal
Irish and Prom
Beginner Open House
My comments on Michelle's notes
Prepayment and such
Golf
Prom
Working schedule
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2010 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This mailing:
This is a very long mailing. Sorry about the length. We
do have a number of things (other than the HRC proposal)
going on at this time.
The discussion regarding the Hard Rock Welcome Celebration
will occur in a separate mailing. Please keep those cards
and letters coming! :)
We need to work toward a yes/no on the Amy/Nora proposal
for the ending bash, proposed to be a combined Pity Party
and Prom/Formal affair. Thanks to all who have commented
so far. Please continue to do so.
This may come down to another vote shortly.
Meanwhile ... I was still thinkin' ... :)
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HRC Motion seconded:
Gina writes:
>Motion duly seconded.
. . .
And Ginger writes:
>I'll second
Thanks, Gina and Ginger.
Other seconds were received, which also included discussion
points, and these will go in the next special mailing on
the HR Welcome Celebration proposal. Please keep an eye
on your inboxes. The next HRC special mailing will most
likely go out tomorrow morning.
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Hotels:
Hotel scoreboard (in order of nomination):
Sahara: Nominated, seconded.
Paris: Nominated, seconded.
MGM: Nominated, pending second.
. . . . . . . . . .
Kimberly Kael writes:
>>Do we hear a second for the Paris?
>Sure!
>I've enjoyed staying there the last two years (and love
>being able to wander back to my room from Le Cabaret
>without involving a taxi!) I hereby second Paris as a
>nominated hotel.
Thanks, Kimberly. Paris is now duly seconded. :)
. . . . .
Vanessa writes:
>I've not stayed at the Paris and am sure that it is very nice.
>I do have experience with the MGM Grand and would put it in
>for a vote on a recommended hotel... two things really give
>the MGM a plus and those are its location at LV Blvd and
>Tropicana with the Tropicana, Excalibur and NY,NY just
>steps away across the elevated walkways, it has a monorail
>terminal in the hotel so you can travel up and down the
>strip, it is hear the HRC, Planet Hollywood and it's
>Million Mile Shops and will be very close to the new City
>Center which is across the street and also owned my the
>MGM/Mirage Group.
>The MGM usually runs a few dollars cheaper than Paris
>and they have many bars and resturants on site and a
>beautiful pool area/spa and a big selection of room types
>across the hotel and towers and bungaloos. I've always
>been treated well there as my femme self.
Thanks, Vanessa.
Do we have a second on the MGM Grand?
. . . . .
All: Any more hotel nominations?
Imperial Palace fans?
Stratosphere fans?
Alexis Park or St. Tropez fans?
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Prom/Formal proposal:
Kimberly Kael writes:
>>This activity, if done as proposed, will be in a rented
>>hall (Italian-American Club) with a catered meal. Is this
>>something you would be tempted to skip, even it if was
>>presented as a maximum-turnout function, primarily because
>>it is sequestered, and not in the mainstream?
>>To all: Would you be tempted to skip it for any other
>>reason, such as the price point or lack of appeal?
>I'm quite torn about the whole event and it isn't any
>single thing that bothers me.
I admit I'm torn about it too, but I can cite two (actually
three) very specific concerns I have. They are brought
up below.
>Not being in a mainstream venue weighs against it, but
>proms are always private functions so I'm not sure why
>that shouldn't be the case for us as well.
>Cost continues to be a concern and I think a prepayment
>requirement may be the deal-killer, but I think we should
>also consider that not everyone will have what they feel
>is a prom-appropriate dress in their wardrobe and so that
>creates another perceived cost for the evening.
I daresay that over 90% of all M-F TGs, no matter what
label they do or do not identify with, and no matter
where they may or may not be on the transition track,
have at least one formal. Most everyone regularly goes
to, or has gone to such things as local benefit galas,
local T-parties, better restaurants, TG conventions, etc.
Even for those who only dress in private, many have
something that would be indeed appropriate for this.
A way of dealing with those who scream "I have absolutely
nothing to wear!" might be to organize a shopping trip to
Chez Magnifique and/or DuBarry. Or (and/or) for those who
are more budget-minded, do the same for one or more local
thrift shops.
This also brings up a related question, is this activity
to be "black tie" or "black tie optional"? :)
>In trying to picture the event I also imagine prom as
>having a distinct romantic component but only a tiny
>faction of our attendees with have their SO with them.
True, and the idea of the traditional "Prom Date" may be
one prom factor that just won't happen with this one.
>The idea of going to a formal dance where there's nobody
>to dance with gives me the creeps. How do we prevent
>everyone from feeling wallflower-esque all night?
We will have SOME couples, and, even at the more
traditional proms you do have girls dancing with
girls, as partners, in groups, and even solo.
"If it's a slow one, we'll omit it, if it's a rocker
then we'll get it!" :)
Is dancing to be a featured part of this activity, or will
it just be more of an incidental thing? (I don't know, I'm
asking.) :) If dancing is to be featured, any good deejay
knows tricks that will get a slow-to-start crowd going. :)
Also remember that if this is combined with the Pity Party,
some of the time will be consumed by the amateur show, with
dancing most likely to follow that part of the evening.
>(I tried to imagine combining prom with NoSD but while I'm
>sure our crowd would love it I suspect it sounds too much
>like work from the girls' perspective.)
I think we've just about exhausted the possible combinations
of a prom with some other activity. The Prom/Pity (Pity Prom?)
is the only one that seems to have stuck, for some reason.
. . . . .
>>2. Yes, we want to do it, but not as a featured maximum
>>attendance activity.
>>3. YesBut, we want a few things different.
>Either of these sounds in line with my reaction.
Thanks, Kimberly. :)
My feelings are along the same line, more or less. As to
the concerns I have:
1. Price point. $50-ish precludes the use of this as any
kind of a maximum-attendance function, IMAO. If dinner can
be unbundled, bringing the cost to $20-ish with dinner as
an option (or eliminated entirely), I think we'll get a
much better turnout.
2. (maybe 1a., actually) :) Required prepayment. I've said
enough on this already. Anybody who has ever coordinated a
DLV activity with prepayment knows how abysmal the rate of
follow-through is. :(
3. Is it "mainstream enough"? Is it? I don't know, I'm
asking those for whom this issue is of great importance.
The Italian-American Club sure ain't a gay bar! :) Neither
is it the Moapa Room down a long hallways in the {fill in
a hotel name} conference center! I've driven by this place
countless times, but I've never been in there, so I can't
really say what it's ambiance is.
Comments, gang?
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Irish and Prom:
Susan Rogers writes:
>Hi all.
Hi Susan. :)
>I'd like to schedule a night at Mcmullan's Irish Pub on
>Sunday. Happy hour at 6. Dinner at 7.
Done! On the schedule. Thanks. :)
>On Sunday's an entertainer (JOHN-WINDSOR.COM) plays Irish
>songs with friends from 6 till 10. He is very good and the
>music is at a reasonable level. Acoustic.
>There is a bar area for the entertainment, a separate bar
>area for the smokers, a restaurant area for the eaters and
>an outdoor patio area as well.
>It could handle a large group, with advance warning.
I'm going to denote the HH as "no sign-up, just show up",
with dinner as "sign-up requested for headcount" so we can
get you a close approximate count just before DLV.
We really haven't done too much about Sunday evening yet,
yours is really the first item on the schedule. We probably
want 2-3 more small-group dining options.
We've also talked about a later-evening common gathering.
No plans for this as of this time.
>Last years event was welcomed by the owners and the staff.
>OK. I admit that it's one of my favorite places to hang out.
Thanks, Susan. :)
. . . . .
>Regarding the prom event, I like the idea. But I think
>that if we schedule it on the last night we run the risk
>of making the last night a do your own thing night. I'd
>prefer an all inclusive last night and think that Bahama
>Breeze could be the place.
>We wont get a large group for many reasons. Payment to
>attend and even worse the dreaded prepayment.
I agree that if there's a $50 hill to climb in order to
attend, we are at risk for a very poor turnout.
>The rented room may turn off some. Slippery slope toward
>another SCC.
>Mainstreamers wont have anyone to show off for.
>A limited menu.
>Is there another night that this would fit?
Yes, but the specific proposal for which we now need to
provide an answer is for the final evening with the combined
Pity/Prom theme. Should we end up turning this down, yes,
there are several other timeslot options for an activity
of this theme that we can then consider.
As a smaller activity, it could be either an evening
option on Tuesday following dinner, or as a dinner-dance
covering the entire evening.
It could be a second-track against the Limo Tour. This
would balance the mainstream/safe aspect of the evening.
However, at the anticipated price point it would fail
to provide balance on the affordable-spendy scale.
It could also work as a local option against NSD on Thursday,
possibly. Ditto on the balance of affordable-spendy.
Also, thinking outside the box here, it could even work as
an elegant slow-start activity for Sunday.
The idea that really appeals to me most as a practical
option for the formal/prom theme is a variation of Kumiko's
suggestion, rolling the Prom theme into the Trevi HH and
dinner on Wednesday. Prom-ish decorations upstairs, Britney
and Kimberly could do their photo backdrop thing, plus it
would (partly) mitigate Michelle's concern about too-casual
dress at Trevi.
However, we really can't consider anything like this until
the Amy/Nora offer is either accepted or turned down.
Comments on any of this, gang?
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Beginner Open House:
Circling back to one of Sarona's notes a few mailings back:
>I also plan to host "open house" all three afternoons
>from 2 or 3 until 5 or 6, something to allow people to
>get ready together if desired, or to socialize in a small
>and private venue before going out.
At the time I was thinking that we should just announce
off-schedule, but the more I think of it, and with Sarona's
OK, I think it might work better on schedule as an official
scheduled DLV activity.
Two areas of emphasis are emerging this year, those being
hospitality toward beginners and newcomers, and self
improvement, and I think this type of an activity works
in with both of these.
In particular I'm thinking of just prior to the proposed
Monday evening Welcome Celebration at Hard Rock. Yes, it
may be a bit scary for a rank newcomer to walk in there,
as cited in the last mailing, but if there would be a
friendly Open House just prior, where they could meet a
few of the others in a quiet and supportive environment,
then travel to the HR together, it may ease the anxiety
quite a bit.
Of course, the idea of a supportive GG hostessing such
an Open House is actually a drawing card as well. :)
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My comments on Michelle's notes:
>Looking at the current draft schedule either Tuesday or
>Wednesday night would be OK {for Trevi}, if Wednesday
>before the Limo tour then the single sitting issue is
>more important.
I would suggest leaving it just the way you have on the
new schedule additions, one seating, Wednesday, prior to
the Limo Tour.
>then we either need to agree that there will be two
>sitting (possibly 60??? Minutes apart) or we simply
>limit the numbers.
I would suggest limiting the numbers, doing one seating,
using the regular menu. Historically, second sessions
of anything do not work out well. Let the demand for this
one exceed the supply. :)
We already do have one alternate-track option for Wednesday,
and there may be others in those timeslots as well.
>Another minor issue was the "tardiness" and "casual
>appearance" of people at the dinner.
As for tardiness, I think we had a double or triple-whammy
last year for Trevi. If you remember, we pushed the start
times forward 1/2 hour, and some assumed our customary
start times for HH and dinner. Add to that the propensity
of our people to run "fashionably late" and that adds up
to an hour or so. Then, we had some who appeared to be
too shy to ask for directions and wandered aimlessly
about the complex for another 1/2 hour or so.
Your schedule times reflect our customary HH and dinner
start times this year. Also, an admonition to please be
punctual on the final schedule may be in order.
As for dress, you as the coordinator can set the required
dress standards for your activity. We can clearly denote
something like "smart casual at minimum" is required for
this activity, if you wish. Of course, if any enforcement
of the dress code is to be done, it will be primarily your
job, as the primary coordinator, to do it. :)
. . . . . . . . . .
Michelle has quite a few comments about the mainstream and
alternative balance, and I'm planning on commenting on
these at a later time.
. . . . . . . . . .
>- Allowance or access to being able to pay remotely should
>be available. Eg. sending credit card details to Glamour
>Boutique, so those arriving later can still pre pay for
>activities without added stress and possible missed or
>late payment.
It's my understanding that yes, GB will be allowing payment
by CC via phone, and most likely allowing multiple things
to be paid with one transaction.
>- That Glamour actually have a proper recording mechanisms
>for all payments that is transparent and available to any
>activity organiser who needs to confirm who paid, when
>and what they paid.
One item which I will be bringing up shortly to the Admin.
Committee is that of the need of a designated "go-between"
person to act as a liason between DLV and GB. We do have
one individual who has, more or less, agreed to perform in
this role. That person can then coordinate the details of
what you just mentioned, as a single point of contact on
the DLV side.
>Other than that I think this will be a great service for
>DLV and will probably allow a greater array of activity
>options to be considered in the future (ie one that need
>deposits or prepayments)
I think that it's a Very Good Thing to have this arrangement
and that it will make things much easier for not only the
attendees, but the activity coordinators.
. . . . . . . . . .
>Restrooms & Men dressed as women looking like men!!!
{sigh!}
Yeah, we might as well reach down and make a grab for the
third rail here! :) :) :)
>I read there was a recent incident at the Gold Coast and
>the following comments are unrelated to that.
I'm not acquainted with the person who was confronted, but
I am somewhat astonished at the intensity of the response
from Gold Coast's security staff! :(
>I have no idea of the circumstances around that incident
>but I have the following to say generally.
>Some are so poorly presented that they have OBVIOUS beard
>shadow, not properly attired and have a HUGE attitude
>problem. These people are the ones that create issues in
>for others less likely to be noticed.
You're preaching to the choir, Michelle! :)
The combination of obvious presentation and that cocky
attitude is the recipe for a restroom incident!
The big question (still) is, what can we do about it?
>This isn't necessarily a DLV issue and in my opinion will
>increasingly be a factor in Las Vegas. LV is definitely
>an ideal destination for the budding young, immature,
>perhaps semi passable Cder to go be "a girl" in the real
>world. If they (plural) create enough issues then we can
>ONLY expect that casinos, hotels and the other venues will
>be more on guard.
IMAO, it's not the young (semi)passable twentysomethings
who are causing issues for the TG community as a whole.
They can usually fly under the radar.
I think it's more like the 40-50-ish CDer who tries to come
off as that cute young twentybopper who attracts most of
the attention from the general public and security.
>Its very simple, if something has happened previously the
>casino security will be much more attuned to the issue
>and look to take pre-emptive / proactive action to ensure
>they mitigate the possibility of repetition.
Agree, and I think that prevention of that first incident
is highly important. But how?
>We have seen it at DLV, when far too many Cders "rushed"
>the restrooms at the Wynn. What happened? Doesn't matter
>the security reaction was to stop anyone they thought was
>doubtful going in for the rest of the evening.
No matter what the circumstances, using restrooms in groups
is one of the most stupid things that TGs can do! Ditto for
conspicuously entering a restroom that's nearby a large
group of our people. This is asking for an incident!
>BTW having said that about the Wynn, Mary Beth wrote a
>letter of commendation for one of their bar maids after
>a group of "kiddies(early 20's)" made a fuss in a bar
As a clarification, and I actually missed this on the first
reading, these incidents (rush of the restroom and the
louts in the bar) occurred at the Venetian, not the Wynn.
>While her actions, to call security to ensure if anything
>happened they were on hand, it also says that they have
>been trained to spot and take action with respect to Tger's
>in general. I'm sure other casinos will have similar
>policies and training in place.
I really think that both of the items you cited above, the
security incident following a storming of the restroom and
the ejection of louts from the bar, are the property's
responses to the needs of the customers.
When a customer complains about misuse of something on the
property, such as a restroom, it's the job of security to
investigate and they are impowered to do what they think
they need to do to make the situation go away.
Until we can get some kind of legal standing in Nevada,
it will probably be very difficult to convince a security
guard or duty manager that we have any kind of "right" to
use those particular restrooms. From their perspective,
the most expedient way to close the report is to tell our
people to stay out of the ladies room, and yes, as of this
point in history, they can legally do just that.
Likewise, when an employee contacts security to let them
know of circumstances that may be hostile to that of some
customers, it's their job to investigate, and if the
circumstances warrant, to bounce a few jerks! This is what
happened when a server proactively contacted security to
alert them of a possible issue.
Now (grabbing that can of worms again and looking for a
can opener) we do have some very explicit restroom guidelines
which interdict using restrooms in groups or obvious use
of restrooms. We still have our people doing just that! :(
Despite our attention to BDR issues since 2003, we've had
several cases of attendees being told to stay out of
ladies rooms, and even multiple cases of attendees being
told to leave the property!
When any attempt to enforce BDR issues has been made, at
best it's been an awkward situation, and sometimes it's
been an absolute train wreck! :(
Ideas?
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Prepayment and such:
Jamie Renae writes:
>On the prepayment subject;
>I have found, over the years, that most establishments
>will accept changes up to 72 hours prior to the scheduled
>event. This is why I always scheduled the Tea on Thursday
>or Friday. This gives the option to pay, after you arrive
>at DLV.
>Paying at the door almost always confuses the issue,
>especially if there is buffet food involved.
Thanks, Jamie. I agree that prepayment is in some cases
a necessary evil, but I think our arrangement with Glamour
Boutique will be a step in the right direction to solve
some of these issues.
>On another note. Since DLV is going to conflict with my
>Alaska Cruise, I will not be attending in 2010.
:(
Sorry to hear that, Jamie. :( You will be missed. :(
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Golf:
Mindy writes:
>Tues would work for golf baring any outcry from golfers.
>I will wait a week or two for feedback and if there is no
>big fuss I will contact the course and set the date.
>Sorry about the problems last year but I really didnt have
>a chance to train anybody to run it in my absence.
Thanks, Mindy.
Golfers: If there's any reason why Golf should not be on
Tuesday, please speak now, as it's about to be a done deal.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Prom:
Marilyn writes:
>Put me down as in favor of the Prom night as proposed by
>Nora and Amy.
>I liked the Bahama Breeze, but I can understand where a
>change in venue would be a good thing.
>So I'd be happy either way.
Thanks, Marilyn.
We've had several express support in the Prom proposal, but
there are some concerns. This will most likely come down to
a vote within the next several list cycles.
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Working schedule:
Diva Las Vegas 2010 schedule
Tentative and subject to change
All times Pacific Daylight Time
Sunday, April 18:
10:00am: Religious services (Metropolitan Community Church) - sv
2:00pm: Studio Lites Open House (Studio Lites) - mv
7:00pm: Dinner options (Various)
9:00pm: After-dinner common gathering (TBA) - mv
Monday, April 19:
10:30am: Makeover Tips with Stacey (Bare Escentuals) - mv
1:00pm: Lunch With Ginger (TBA) - ms
3:00pm: Beginner Open House (See notes) - sv
6:00pm: Happy Hour (TBA) - mv
7:00pm: Dinner (TBA) - mv
8:00pm: Welcome Meet and Greet (TBA) - mv
Tuesday, April 20:
8:00am: Diva Las Vegas Invitational Golf (Desert Rose) - ms
10:30am: Makeover Tips with Stacey (Bare Escentuals) - mv
1:00pm: Lunch With Mary Beth (TBA) - ms
3:00pm: Beginner Open House (See notes) - sv
7:00pm: Murder Mystery Interactive Theater (tba) - sv
7:00pm: Eating Out Night (Various)
7:00pm: Milano's option (Milano's) - mv
7:00pm: Joe's option (Joe's Crab and Steak) - ms
8:30pm: Mainstream-Alternative Night (Various)
8:30pm: Big Show (TBA) - ms
8:30pm: Affordable Show (TBA) - ms
8:30pm: Pub Crawl (TBA) - sv
Wednesday, April 21:
1:00pm: Lunch With Ginger (TBA) - ms
3:00pm: Beginner Open House (See notes) - sv
6:00pm: Quiet Evening At Home HH and Dinner (See notes) - sv
6:00pm: Happy Hour (Trevi) - ms
7:00pm: Dinner (Trevi) - ms
8:00pm: Pajama Party (See notes) - sv
9:30pm: Limousine Tour (TBA) - ms
Thursday, April 22:
2:00am: Charles Bar (Bellagio) - ms
11:00am: Glamour Boutique Open House (Glamour Boutique) - sv
1:00pm: Lunch With Ginger (TBA) - ms
5:00pm: Night Of The Soiled Doves (CR) - mv
6:00pm: Local Happy Hour (TBA) - ms
7:00pm: Local Dinner (TBA) - ms
Friday, April 23:
9:00am: Pistol/rifle shooting (TBA) - ms
1:00pm: Lunch With Ginger (TBA) - ms
6:00pm: Happy Hour (TBA) - ms
7:00pm: Final Dinner (TBA) - ms
9:00pm: After-dinner options (Various)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
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