From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Fri Jul 11 2008 - 06:11:49 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Continuing date discussion
Mothers Day significance
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2009 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
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Continuing date discussion:
Lots of good discussion here in this mailing ...
We do need to consider everyone's needs and desires in setting
the 2009 dates, as some are most definitely mutually exclusive.
As we continue with the discussion, please excuse me if I appear
to be doing things very methodically and even somewhat regimented.
It's obvious that no six-day span within April and May next year
is ideal, and our decision will be a compromise in one or several
ways, with some being disappointed. When our decision is made, I
don't want somebody who is unhappy to be able to call "foul" over
any procedural item or technicality.
. . .
The only timeframes which have a clear and explicit nomination
as of this time are the following:
1. Sunday, April 26 thru Friday, May 1.
2. Monday, April 27 thru Saturday, May 2.
3. Monday, May 11 thru Saturday, May 16.
These are the ones that will appear on the second ballot unless
some more explicitly-stated nominations come in. ("I nominate ...")
If you (yes, you) can think of any six-day span in April or May
(or even March -- see below) that would be better than (or less
worse than) the above three, please say so within the next list
cycle. Let's plan on the next mailing to come out Monday morning.
Please state explicitly "I nominate {month/day} thru
{month/day}" or words to that effect if you wish to formally
place another timeframe into consideration.
These additional ones were mentioned in the last mailing, but
no explicit nominations for any of these timeframes have been
received:
4. Wednesday, April 23 thru Tuesday, April 28.
5. Friday, May 1 thru Thursday, May 6.
6. Sunday, May 17 thru Friday, May 22.
If you wish to see any of these considered, or any other
timeframe, please nominate it prior to Monday.
. . .
One option we haven't discussed, which we could do with little
formality assuming we have a consensus, is to hold off on our
next round of voting pending input from the Teeming Millions.
There's nothing that says we can't do a Call For Comments now,
explaining that we have such and such timeframes nominated but
none are ideal, and we need some input prior to our final vote.
I see one advantage in this, and that it it gives the attendees
input prior to the decision, and thus would tend to alleviate
some of the b*tching that would occur from those who would not
be happy with the outcome.
Comments on this one?
. . . . .
Jamie writes:
>In doing the May dates, that would make the 10th a travel day for
>many. Still a Mother's Day conflict.
Yes, this can be a Bad Thing. If we select this, I expect there
will be some b*tching about it.
However, it appears that no six-day span in April or May is ideal
for us this year.
If you wish, you may nominate something like April 12 - 17. I've
taken the liberty of citing some numbers as they pertain to our
turnout with respect to Mothers Day below.
. . .
Kate writes:
>If you are seriously asking for opinions. I suggest the last week
>in March/ first in April, Or the first week in September or even
>Late October maybe.
We don't have any standing rules which say we're limited to April
or May, but that has been our tradition. I would say that we
should consider moving DLV outside of the spring season only if
there are no other options.
Last week of March into the first of April locks out Mindy for
four days (see below). This would put several activities at risk.
However there's a similar item below, last full week of March,
which might be an option.
I think that a September or October timeframe would be a very
hard one to sell to the group here, although it is a fact that
we don't have any rules against it.
>Either of these would suit me perfectly as March is early enough
>to shave and recover before the Summer (I don't dress full time)
>and September is still hot enough in Vegas to wear Summer clothes.
>I know this is a joke to some of our more affluent ladies but
>"You Did Ask! If you just want to go with the originators then
>go with them and we will merely follow if we can.
>I love this event and don't want to spoil things for others but
>these are the dates that I like. Sorry if it offends anyone but I
>have listened for 6 years to " No Mothers Day, No Fathers Day,
>No Religious Holidays, No Later in the year weeks, No this,
>No that.
>Please take this serious, It was meant to be constructive, Not
>destructive. I am a loyal supporter of DLV and will go with the
>flow!
>I felt this had to be said.
Thanks, Kate.
Yes, I see your comments as constructive. The bad thing is that
no timeframe is ideal in 2009. We'll have to balance all of the
factors and consider the needs of all, including economic needs,
family considerations, business considerations, common conflicts,
weather, etc.
. . .
Mary Beth writes:
>Regarding the timeframe, is there a particular reason that DLV
>hasn't been held in late March (say, the 22nd - 28th, for
>example)? Just curious.
Yes and no. :)
Main reason is that nobody has nominated those dates. I also
think that it might be worse for Michelle, whose comments were
part of what started the date reconsideration.
If you (or anybody) would like to nominate, say, March 22-27,
please do so before Monday.
Since this has been brought up twice now, let's do some due
dilligence. Looking at March ...
The obvious item might be Spring Break, but that's no longer
uniform across institutions and really should not cause a spike
in room rates or any significant spike in the number of drunken
fratboys.
Looking at the LVCVA schedule, there's one period in March
which is anticipating about 100,000 convention types in total,
so we should probably avoid March 15-20.
March 15-18, ASD/AMD Show, LVCC, 64,000 expected.
March 15-20, Globalshop, Sands, 20,000 expected.
March 18-20, International Wireless, LVCC, 15,000 expected.
All of March is Lent, but I really don't know how much that will
affect our turnout. It certainly does not appear to deter the
planners of other events in Las Vegas.
Of course the first Sunday in April is Palm Sunday, and if we
schedule too close to it, like the last week of March into the
first part of April, we may have some griping from those for
whom it is a high holy day. Mindy (who historically coordinates
Golf, Pity Party, others) would have a major issue with that
week too.
>Also, I personally don't like a mid-week start and finish, since
>I have to use extra vacation days to travel, rather than flying on
>Sunday and Saturday when I'm already off from work anyway. A
>Wednesday through Tuesday DLV, for example, would mean I'd have to
>burn two extra vacation days just to travel.
I do agree that a weekend start and/or end seems to work best,
at least it has over the last several DLVs. I find the Sunday thru
Friday span particularly appealing.
>My 2 cents,
And worth every penny! :)
. . .
Nicole writes:
>I am new on the organizers list but I would prefer a Monday
>Saturday due to a weekly committment each Sunday morning.
>Either of these look good right now:
>Monday, April 27 thru Saturday, May 2.
>Monday, May 11 thru Saturday, May 16.
Thanks, Nicole.
I would encourage more of you, the newer volunteers to please
let your opinions be known on this and other topics of interest.
. . .
Lorraine writes:
>i move we use thedates in may
So noted.
If you're referring to the May 11-16 dates. These are already in
nomination and will appear on the next ballot.
. . .
Caitlin writes:
>I'm opting for the later of the three dates proposed.
>My daughter's Birthday is April 30th and if I'm not home for
>that there's trouble. I got home at noon on her B'day in 2005,
>it wasn't a pretty scenario...
. . .
Nora writes:
>MY Vote.
>1. Sunday, April 26 thru Friday, May 1.
Noted as your preference. However, we're not voting yet, but we
will be shortly. :)
. . .
Mindy writes:
>I will just make a short recap of my previous post. Any dates
>that include the last 2 or first 2 days of the month are out
>for me. In my job if I aint in the hospital I have to be at
>work. I get up at 5:30 am on work days so you can see the
>problem it creates for me.
Thanks, Mindy. One thing I do think is important here is that
we give extra consideration to those who do the work to make
DLV what it is. We most definitely do not want to lock out
the more active volunteers!
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Mothers Day significance:
The Mothers Day issue is most likely the most contentious issue
in our history, more so than BDR I daresay. Look back in the
2003-2004 Discussion Forum archives for a very lively thread,
several of them, actually.
My concern about the Mothers Day issue (and with many of the
issues we now have in scheduling this coming year) is the effect
it would have on the turnout. We also have to be considerate of
those who might get put in a no-win squeeze between DLV and
Mothers Day commitments.
I don't want to re-open the Mothers Day discussion or change
the rules we put in place back in 2003 regarding Mothers Day.
AFAIC, it's a done deal. Three days are disallowed, no more,
no less. "It ain't broke, it don't need fixed!" :)
The history, for those who are new or those who don't remember
the details, due to the brouhaha raised by our scheduling DLV
to end the day before Mothers Day in 2004, in October of 2003
we voted to exclude the Sunday of Mothers Day and the preceding
Friday and Saturday from any DLV scheduling. The vote was 9/5/5
in favor.
It's been a standing rule since 2003, but it's been unclear if
that rule had any effect on turnout, or looking back to the
case of 2004, if Mothers Day resulted in significant early
departure.
Let's try to find out. :)
We now have some data which can give us an answer.
Mothers Day has fallen within DLV three times in our history and
has occurred the day after DLV once. In 1997 and 1998 it appeared
to be a non-issue. It was mentioned, but not pressed, prior to
DLV 2000. $#!+ hit the fan in 2003!
1997: May 9 - 11, Friday - Sunday, included Mothers Day.
1998: May 8 - 11, Friday - Monday, included Mothers Day.
2000: May 11 - 16, Thursday - Tuesday. (incl. Mothers Day)
2004: May 2 - 8, Sunday - Saturday. (Mothers Day May 9)
On the 2004 follow-up survey we had this one-time question and
these are the responses. 65 total responses were received that
year.
+How much did the Mothers Day issue affect your plans:
+Little or none: 49
+Somewhat: 10
+Significantly: 5
75% of the respondents stated little or no effect. 7.6% said
a significant effect, and 15% said somewhat. Some did not answer
this, resulting in a total of less than 100%.
The overall turnout in 2004 was very good, following our growth
pattern, and certainly not showing any overall decrease or
stunted growth for any reason, Mothers Day or whatever.
2003: 104
2004: 118
2005: 126
Looking back at 2004, if Mothers Day were really a significant
conflict for some, we should see an increase of attendees who
departed Saturday or before, compared to the other years in
which DLV ended on a Saturday.
We've now had DLV end on a Saturday for four years in recent
history.
2004: May 2 - 8, Sunday - Saturday. (Mothers Day May 9)
2005: April 24 - 30, Sunday - Saturday.
2007: April 23 - 28, Monday - Saturday.
2008: April 21 - 26, Monday - Saturday.
For 2004, 2007, and 2008, we have very detailed records of the
various departure dates in the survey reports. (For 2005, for
some reason, the details of the departure dates were not
reported.) We have our Mothers Day year and two years of ending
on a non-Mothers-Day-eve Saturday to which we can compare.
First, let's look at the departures from 2004, out of 65 responses:
Thursday, May 6: 4 (6.1%)
Friday, May 7: 10 (15.3%)
Saturday, May 8: 14 (21.5%)
Then, compare to the 2007 departures, out of 86 responses:
Thursday, April 26: 5 (5.8%)
Friday, April 27: 7 (8.1%)
Saturday, April 28: 18 (20.9%)
And then 2008, out of 87 responses:
Thursday, April 24: 8 (9.1%)
Friday, April 25: 8 (9.1%)
Saturday, April 26: 10 (11.4%)
If those look a bit fuzzy, let's aggregate all Thursday-Saturday
departures for these three years:
2004: 28/65 (43%)
2007: 30/86 (34.8%)
2008: 26/87 (29.8%)
These numbers, particularly the increased Friday departures,
combined with the fact that over 20% of those answering the 2004
survey reported at least some influence, I think we can say that
yes, Mothers Day does have an effect on DLV participation.
Bottom line: It is a factor of some significance, but does it
trump all other factors? That's for you to decide!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
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