From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Wed Jun 07 2006 - 08:06:29 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Welcome to DLVORG
Specific volunteers
Dress discussion
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2007 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
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Welcome to DLVORG:
This is the kick-off and shakedown message to the new ORG list for DLV
2007.
This is the group that plans and implements the vacation we know and
love which goes by the name Diva Las Vegas.
I (Annie) will be handing the job of moderating this list over to Aiko
very shortly. This week I am going through the steps of preparing the
list with Aiko so she knows how I've been doing it.
Aiko will be the one who handles responses and submissions to this list
from now on.
Some of the discussion is being continued from the old 2006 ORG list
and if you're new, you might want to catch up on some of the recent
topics by checking the 2006 ORG list archives at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org06arc/
. . . . .
To those who are new, we appreciate you stepping forward and hope that
your involvment with this group will be enjoyable and rewarding to you.
If you're new to this group, please don't be afraid to speak up. We need
your input as well as that of those who have been around several years.
I would like to ask everybody, particularly the new people, to think
about what you, personally, would like to do for DLV, both generally and
specifically. Yes, some of you have sent in notes of what you have in
mind, and these appear below.
As you probably know, DLV is a sequence of activities that are, for the
most part, autonomous. Most of our "work" consists of planning those
activities and taking the steps necessary to make them happen.
Some of our activities are trivial, and these are the ones where there's
no formality, no sign-up, just show up. On these all we really need to
do is agree on what to do, where, and when. Examples of these might be
the daily Lunch With(out) Ginger, the Charles Bar, and some of our Happy
Hours and bar gatherings.
Others are a bit more involved, and require advance planning, maybe rate
negotiation with a vendor, ticketing, $$$ collection, etc.
. . .
One important thing to remember in the ORG group here is that it's ok to
agree to disagree. We do have quite a diverse group here, representing
all points on the t* spectrum and then some. Differing views are
encouraged, and playing devil's advocate is cool. Just remember to
respect each individual as a person and their point of view as being
valid from their perspective.
New and different ideas are always welcome. If you have something in
mind that you think DLV people would enjoy, put it on the table, even if
it's something really out in left field. As all of you know, some of our
activities are most certainly atypical for a t* gathering.
We try to reach decisions by consensus here, but when there's no clear
consensus or there's some disagreement, we result to the democratic
process and we vote.
In most all cases, those who volunteer to plan and implement a DLV
activity are the decision makers regarding that activity. Of course the
ORG group as a whole has the final say on what activities will and will
not appear on the schedule. We work as a group to combine the activities
into the most effective format and schedule.
Some discussion on this year's org list will be carryover from last
year's, and those who are new might want to review the archives of the
2006 ORG list at http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org06arc/
Archives of this year's ORG list will appear on the web at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org07arc/
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Specific volunteers:
(Aiko, you taking notes?) :) :) :)
Here's a summary of the items that have come in regarding happenings for
DLV 2007 and the volunteers who have agreed to make them happen:
. . .
Ginger writes:
>... -- and in these ways specifically
>I'll do lunch again and want to extend it to Saturday and Sunday (I
>think someone mentioned doing Sunday and I'll defer to anyone who wants
>to do it some days or an alternative event during the week).
>I'll do a SBS Social again.
>I'd like to host one or more alternative theater evenings where people
>get their own tickets at a major show that we select then we just show
>up and see the show. We can also do an after theater gathering
>somewhere following. This seemed to work well at Dragpella!
. . . . .
Nora writes:
>HI Annie:
Hewwo :)
>I plan to continue in my role as the big sister coordinator. To me It
>is the most rewarding of all the volunteer assignments. I would like to
>see all those who have benefited from the Big Sister program and have
>received help as a Little Sister to now assume the role of a big Sister
>when they return next year.
>I also hope to continue as coordinator of dining and other events.
. . . . .
Sarah writes:
>Since JoAnn and I have already talked about it a bunch, I want to do
>the Art Tour once again.
. . . . .
Caitlin writes:
>I'd like to volunteer for DLV '07. I volunteered for '06 but didn't do
>anything (which was good I suppose as I couldn't get the time off from
>work). Next year I'm definitely going even if I have to crawl through
>the hot desert sun to get there.
. . . . .
Rosada writes:
>Count on me to be a translator again.
. . . . .
Alanna writes:
>Id love to help out in any capacity you require..Alanna
. . . . .
Terri writes:
Thank you so much for your continued service to the community.
>I am Theresa Lynch and was pre-registered BUT COULD NOT ATTEND. It was
>painful to miss Diva again this year. It seems that for some of us TS
>girls, we often end up inadvertantly taking a vow of poverty... lol!
>But there will, of course, be Diva LV 2007... As to the call for
>volunteers, I hesitate to take on a service commitment because my
>personal finance is a chancey prospect at present. At a level of
>simply stating interest at this point, I would like to organize a
>Wiccan Spring Rite / Picnic for next year, and have an interest in a
>very high end dining venue, specifically, Daniel Boloud's restaurant
>in Steve Winn's new casino.
>Please do communicate the anticipated dates for Diva for 2007, even if
>they are very tentative at this point. I will contact Daniel's
>restaurant soonest, as should there be interest, they often book out
>six months in advance. Also, the dates are important in considering
>which type of Wiccan Rite may be appropriate for the time of the
>event.
. . . . .
Edy writes:
>Annie, would be glad to volunteer for 2007.
. . . . .
Holly writes:
>Please add my name to the list of those wanting to make DVL "the" CD
>event of the world!
. . . . .
Jamie writes:
>I would be happy to do th eEnglish Tea again,, for 2007.
. . . . .
JoAnn writes:
>This is to let you know that I am happy to be placed on the volunteer
>list for the Limo Tour, the Museum Tour, and the Pins, and as might be
>needed elsewhere.
. . . . .
And Annie writes:
I'll again volunteer to continue on the Limo Team, responsible for
ticketing. I think we do have all of this year's Limo Team on board for
2007.
I'll also volunteer to lead another Alternative Bar Crawl. That worked
out quite well.
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Dress discussion:
(continued from 2006 ORG list)
I'll put my conclusions here up top, so those who don't want to read
all of the discussion below don't have to.
I'm also trying to focus on the main issue here, and this thread has
wandered and expanded quite a bit and has become overly broad.
We are talking only about a subset of our activities -- those which
occur in mainstream locations. We're also talking only about a small
subgroup of our people -- those who dress/behave improperly in these
mainstream locations.
We also are not talking about restrooms. I think we're all on the same
page WRT the restroom topic.
If we examine the subgroup of people who had dressing issues, they seem
to very clearly fall into two groups:
1. Those who are new (clueless), oblivious, or even delusional.
2. Those who are saying "f*ck you" to the rules.
There's really no one-size-fits-all solution that covers both of the
above.
As to #1, I think they will respond well to well-intended constructive
feedback, as has been demonstrated. Even word of mouth via the grapevine
seems to work, as it did with the person involved in the 2005 Bellagio
incident.
I really think that more awareness of the side effects of behavior and
dress would be the best for #1. Also, as has been suggested, a newbee
"basic face" workshop at GB or something like that might help those who
are indeed new.
As to #2, IMAO, we don't want them back unless they have an attitude
adjustment.
History has shown that for the most part the "this is my style, get used
to it" gang will not return, and when some of them do return, they tend
to lay low.
We don't need any more rules, regulations, policies, documents, etc.
We do occasionally need some individualized case-by-case intervention
when appropriate.
Let me ask one question straight out. Does anybody think that it IS
appropriate, for example, for a 50+yo 240lb, 6'2" individual to wear a
miniskirt, 5" heels, fishnets, and a crop top to dine at the House Of
Lords?
Will anybody here go on record as encouraging this type of outfit for a
group meal at DLV at such a mainstream venue?
. . . . .
Yvonne writes:
>My understanding is that offically DLV is a 'vacation'. Has this
>changed?
Nope, like the Un-Cola, we're the Un-Convention. :)
>The proof is in the attendence. If the majority didn't like what DLV
>was providing, the attendence would be very very low, and the most
>comments would be negative. I don't see any of this.
This is a very good point. This also shows the self-regulating nature
of DLV.
>So how can this group go progressively in the wrong direction?
It's not.
We've had growing pains, and I would almost say a perpetual identity
crisis, part of which is reflected in this thread.
We're diverse, and not well understood, even by ourselves.
. . . . .
>Please do not forget that we had to deal with tragic restroom events
>that tramatized innocent dlv attendees in mainstream locations, caused
>by those that didn't care about how they appeared in public.
I still don't think many of our people realize exactly how devastating
these incidents are! More than once I've seen these TOTALLY RUIN an
otherwise enjoyable vacation for some of our attendees. :(
However, I don't think restrooms are involved in the current issue.
. . .
>So where do you 'draw the line' or 'control' how to dress to prevent a
>re-occurance? and more-so improve the wording so it becomes exact and
>clear for everyone so there is no mis-understanding or varied
>interpretation?
IMAO, we have enough rules, regulations, policies, guidelines, etc.
Except for those who are so smart that they skipped the grades in school
in which they taught reading, the wording is clear and the meaning is
obvious.
We could spend countless hours rewriting and rewording, but that would
be an exercise in diminishing returns.
As I think back to DLV 2006, except for one case of #2 above, we're
dealing with those whose actions were totally unintentional, and also
with those who did read the COP and BDR guidelines and such.
. . .
>When walking around LV, I see the majority of the people wearing
>conservative casual wear. Maybe I'm walking in the wrong part of LV
>strip or downtown.
Your observations are the same as mine, but ... {picky picky picky}
<broken record>
I really don't think "conservative" is the correct adjective to use
in this context. The term implies (other than the obvious political
meaning), at least to me, anyway, moderation and restraint, and I don't
think that's what Mr. and Ms. Tourista think about when they get dressed
in the morning for a day of casino hopping.
</broken record>
If we have to call it something, typical daytime Las Vegas dress has
evolved into "contemporary casual" or "comfortable casual", and really
has a wide range of styles and variations on the theme.
The one thing that's common among the daytime garb of the Las Vegas
visitor and tourists is that with rare exception, it's (here's that
word again) appropriate for time, place, and circumstance, as well
as for the person doing the wearing.
Maybe a term like "something other than slutty" has to be used. :)
. . .
>>The caustic judgments of some DLV attendees in the past few years has
>>been even more draconian. This has taken much of the fun out of DLV
>Have you considered that because of a few, the majority aren't having
>'fun' or as 'relaxed' as result of the actions of those few? ... and
What you may perceive as caustic, I'm hearing as frustration from having
the enjoyment of the vacation spoiled by somebody's inconsideration.
. . .
>>>Screaming Trannies, Hookers on Heat and the femme neutral look need
>>>to be stomped on. They are an embarrassment to us all.
>>Please speak for yourself.
I will speak for myself. Yes, there were a few times at DLV 2006 where
the appearance and/or actions of others caused me to feel awkward and
uncomfortable. I really don't think any of this was intentional, but
just clueless and possibly thoughtless.
I just rolled my eyes, bit my tongue, and put up with it. :(
These were all solo or small group situations mostly in daytime general
public.
(Geesh! Doesn't somebody know better than to scream "HEY ANNIE!" in
brother's gruffest voice across a crowded casino, only to just wave
and rush off once my attention, and that of everybody else there, was
obtained??!!) :(
. . .
>Good point, you haven't been confronted by Casino Management and blamed
>and accosted by someone else's behavior. What about those that have
>been due to the actions of others that really created the problem?
This is another point that I don't think many of our people fully
comprehend. It's often not the perpetrator who gets the snotty end
of the stick. It can be a truly innocent person who just happens to
be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
. . .
>So are you saying, don't judge and don't do anything? or allow those
>that dress in-appropriate to embarass or put in the spotlight for the
>whole group there?
If we don't judge, then the public will do the judging for us.
When a 50-ish 6'+ 240lb Tgirl wears a miniskirt, fishnets, and a crop top
in mainstream public, the onlookers are NOT thinking along the lines of
"Oh wow, what a babe!" but more like "Jeez, that is one sorry looking
dude." and, after looking around once the attention is gained ... "Oh
sh*t, there are MORE of them!" :(
. . .
>>This indicates that even though we have given attention to dress that
>>is appropriate for time, place, and circumstance, some believe that
>>this is still an issue.
>For the clueless, yes. They may need coaching or understanding which
>they lack, which is the purpose of the 'Big Sister' program.
I think we should look at doing something in addition to just the Big
Sister program.
The Big Sister Program is voluntary, requiring action on the part of the
newbee, and is very vulnerable to human nature and yes, human weakness.
Some of the time we get a good match, other times it just doesn't work
out for any of several reasons.
(Speculation, but ...) My guess is that the majority of those we had
issues with this year did not participate in the Big Sister program.
We also have several types of "beginners", such as those who have never
been out in mainstream public but have been active in support groups and
maybe the conventions, those who have dressed only in private before,
those who have only dressed "below the neck", only underdressed, and I'm
sure many variations on this theme.
And -- correct me if I'm wrong -- but aren't a number of the people who
brought on this topic definitely not beginners?
. . . . .
>DLV has multi-track events to go to either 'safe' or mainstream venues.
IMAO, the multi-tracking has been one of the best things to come to DLV.
The primary benefit is that it increases overall participation, and thus
overall satisfaction with DLV. That's the overall effect. It does this
by personalizing the experience, each attendee can select the best fit
for any number of desires.
>DLV has always stated that going to mainstream places and events
>requires a higher level of behavior and dressing standards.
Yes, and I think this should be obvious. It apparently is to some, but
not to all. I think much of this is naivete, some just don't yet have
a good handle on dressing for mainstream and how to behave as a lady
in general public situations.
. . . . .
>The early years used to talk about how DLV was a great chance to go out
>and be yourself on vacation, and it had a great mix of GLBT venues and
>main-stream venues.
In thinking back to the very early years (1997-1999) of DLV, I think
the real difference was that back then, it was seen as more of an
"opportunity to party" than an "opportunity to dress" by those who
attended.
In our later years, I get the impression that for many of our attendees,
the opportunity to dress is now the primary attraction of DLV.
. . . . .
>>For several years now, the ORG group and activity coordinators have
>>been empowered to speak up to people dressed really far out for
>>mainstream activities.
>The organizer of a event should be in control of it.
We did a fairly good job between 2003 and 2004 in defining what
behaviors and styles we did and did not want, and in defining what
action COULD be taken.
Our Cpolicy does state that action may be taken but does not REQUIRE any
action to be taken. It does cover the case of the organizer of record
failing to take action, but again does not require anything.
. . . . .
And Dianna writes:
>I showed up in jeans, sneakers and a top and one of the newer girls to
>the group eventually asked me " How could you waste a time getting out
>and not wear a mini, heels and stockings?"
>Well, I had to chuckle inside a bit but I am wondering what percentage
>of DLV'ers adopt this same attitude? In other words, not missing a
>chance to dress up regardless of the situation?
>My opinion is that there are many.
You are most likely correct. I think the opportunity to dress is one of
the primary reasons for attending DLV. Good survey question, but as we
know, the survey just ended. Might be a good one for next year.
Is there something wrong about using DLV as an opportunity to dress?
Most definitely not.
As I think about the settings of the various dress and behavior issues
this year, and the verbal comments that were told to me, I come up with
the following: Death Valley Tour, Lunch With Ginger, Charles Bar, Dinner
at Bahama Breeze, Tony Roma's, Buck Wild, and various daytime
non-activity circumstances.
One thing these have in common is that they are all mainstream, general
public settings. Another thing they have in common is that at the time
of these activities, there were no "safe" or "alternative" venue
activities going on at the same time. Do we need to look at increasing
the number of safe venue activities?
Comments?
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Administrivia:
This is the Diva Las Vegas 2007 organizational list.
One address for all items regarding this list, additions, removals,
changes, submissions, questions, etc.:
dlvorg@geekbabe.com <--- NOTE: all lower case
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list, as the list processor will not properly handle them. If you want
to send photos and the like, mail to: annie@annie.net
Diva Las Vegas 2007
(dates to be announced)
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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