From: Annie (annie@geekbabe.com)
Date: Thu Oct 09 2003 - 06:44:04 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
Motion seconded
In other business
Extensions
Extended dates
Voting and dancing
Guns and stuff
Surprised with Vote results
Tired of hearing it
Summary schedule of activities
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV 2004 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
Ongoing activity database of proposed and scheduled activities on line:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org04arc/acts.html
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Motion seconded:
Jena's motion to extend DLV by one day has been seconded. Floor is now
open for, among other things, discussion on the one-day extension
proposed by Jena and seconded by Densie.
Densie writes:
>I second the motion to extend it a day...
So seconded.
>...but would really like to see the Galiano Challenge on the list of
>activities. Considering the DLV folklore surrounding Galiano, I think
>it's important enough to list, even if it's part of another GT at a bar.
I'm sure we can sneak it in there somewhere. :)
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In other business:
We have a few other items we need to apply some attention to.
We're approaching the 6 month mark, and the "slack" part of our planning
year will soon be coming to a close.
In November, we're scheduled to select our "suggested" hotels for DLV
2004. In December I'll be asking the ORG people to help test and shake
down the web registration. If you're ready, those here on the ORG
mailing can register "for real" at that time.
This year I'm planning to do a three-phase registration, first in
January with a clickable express re-registration for returnees, then
pre-registration for list members in February, and then open
registration for the general public beginning in March.
I'm thinking that April 1 is a good time to begin the activity sign-up
process, so please be thinking ahead, because anything that requires a
sign-up, head count, or other hoop-jump will have to be totally solid at
activity sign-up time.
You may have noticed that I've held off on sending the September-October
general mailing out. This is mainly due to waiting for the results of
the extension vote. I also want to let the current motion and any other
scheduling motions run their course. There's not much else for the
general mailing, mostly about 1000 copies of that TG travel advisory
thing, so we may have a combined September-October-November mailing or
just an October-November mailing.
I've also held off on announcing the dates to the various TG event
listings until I'm very sure there will be no more rescheduling
considerations.
Looks like this is our first "laundry list" for this year. :)
. . . . .
Our next milestone is the suggested hotels. We're due to vote on these
next month.
Hotel nominations received so far are:
+(In order of nomination)
+Sahara (multiple)
+Comfort Inn (Paradise near Harmon) (Gina)
+Bellagio (Gina)
+San Remo (multiple)
+Stratosphere (Densie)
If there are any other nominations, please get them in. I notice that
one of our old favorites, the Imperial Palace, and one of our hotels
from last year, the Tropicana, have not been nominated. IP and Trop
fans, please note.
Monique, anything to report regarding the San Remo?
Mindy, anything to report regarding the Boardwalk?
I'm sure any items either of you two can get in by the first of November
or so will help your hotel's chances of being named one of our suggested
hotels.
If anybody else has any hotel-related items to discuss, please go4it. We
still haven't had our yearly go-round on whether we should concentrate
our people all at one hotel or spread them out, for example. :)
. . . . .
We'll be taking a vote shortly on adopting our proposed policy which
covers restroom/dress/behavior. If there's any more discussion regarding
this, please get that on the table. If anybody needs to review this,
it's on line at:
http://www.drbbs.com/dmr/cpolicy.html
. . . . .
Bev, you talked a while back about some kind of a hospitality suite. Any
further thoughts on this?
. . . . .
Suzi, any recent/further thoughts about your photography proposal?
. . . . .
Sandi, any further thoughts about the SO gathering room and such?
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Extensions:
Tina writes:
>>I voted against the motion to extend back by 2 days as too much for the
>>org to handle. I don't see the people complaining about running into
>>Mothers Day stepping up to the plate.
>I think there's some confusion there. The motion to extend DLV, to the
>best of my knowledge, did not come from anyone who objected to
>scheduling DLV into Mother's Day. That extension idea was offered by
>others in the ORG group as some sort of consolation prize to those
>missing the big closing weekend. Speaking for myself, I wrote in
>several times, including as recently as last week, to say that the
>extension was putting a band-aid on a bad scheduling choice. Please do
>not lump the 2 issues together. They should remain separate
>discussions.
I do believe the previous motion to extend, and the current motion on
the table, are well-intentioned and intended to address both the desire
for a longer DLV in and of itself, and in particular a longer DLV for
those who for whatever reason have to miss the second weekend.
>Just because we don't want to miss Mother's Day weekend at home with
>family doesn't mean we should become social directors par excellence
>and create new activities to run DLV to a 10 day length, significantly
>greater than it has ever run before. It takes considerable time and
>effort to plan and run an original activity, even simple ones. I know,
>because I speak from experience as the originator of: 1st Annual Limo
>tour - 2001, Splash show - 2000, Folies Bergere show - 2001, Blonde
>Hair Day - 2002, DLV Dance Night 2000 - 2003. I'm beginning to think
>that a short history lesson is in order for some of these newer ORG
>girls.
>Oh, I forgot about Red Shoe Night 2003, but apparently so did
>most girls. :-)
I didn't. Kinda. :)
>I've eaten the cost of reserved show tickets for no-shows and girls who
>"forget" to pay when we tried the honor system. And don't forget the
>bounced checks when we tried pay-far-in-advance. I've reached into my
>own purse to sufficiently tip Bridget the limo driver at the 1st limo
>tour when some DLV girls were too cheap to kick in, so that we could
>retain good relations with the limo company. Because she doesn't want
>her name used, I won't even mention the airplane pilot who has brought
>her airplane down to DLV (one of 2 pilots, the other is a nun whose
>name is apparently on the restricted list also) for the past several
>years and given free rides to many DLV girls. So "...people
>complaining about running into Mother's Day" have stepped up to the
>plate quite a bit over the last 5 years.
>Also, have you really been listening? Even though I'm not a fan of
>extending DLV, in an earlier mailing I discussed the outlines for a
>significant 1st weekend event called the Sunday Night Dance, with
>particular consideration of ways to mitigate the demographics and
>reticence problems that have held back some girls from participating in
>previous years' dance events.
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Extended dates:
Jamie writes:
>I can see that this idea might be popular, but trying to have the Tea
>on the same day that people are ariving and trying to get checked into
>their rooms seems to be pushing the envelope.
Of course it will be up to the people holding the tea (or teas) to
determine where they sit on the calendar. I was under the impression
that it was a priority to have a "real Sunday" for this. There's also
nothing that says two teas could not be done, if there is a demand and
people take the steps necessary to plan them.
Comments?
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Voting and dancing:
>>Vote results
>Couldn't we have just one more recount? I'm not sure I understood the
>ballot.
Sure:
Aye: 10
Nay: 10
Abstain: 8
I'm getting very good at counting. :)
>>Tramps, Dancing, Fiscal Responsibility
>Being a refugee from the Disco Daze, I wouldn't mind, for old time's
>sake, going to a big place where they spend millions of bucks on lights
>and sound. Maybe drop a little clear liquid first.
>...or maybe not. ;)
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Guns and stuff:
Yvonne writes:
>Yes, the FFL is mainly for both firearms and ammunition.
>From the democratically very restricted state from where I live:
>Those interested in purchasing a particular firearm you see at the LV
>gun show and are out of state, then the person who has the FFL and
>lives in LV can buy the gun for you, and ship it to a business or
>someone who has a FFL in your home state. One then can register and
>get ownership of said firearm. This seems to be the easist way.
>One cannot buy a firearm in LV if you are out of state. The ONLY
>exception is that the firearm be over 100 yrs old, where the feds have
>ruling that the firearm is now officially a curio and can be purchased
>by anyone. The 100yr+ gun owner will have to carry proof of age.
>IE a colt 'peacemaker' made in 1902 with proof that it was made in
>1902, can be bought by anyone. If in good condition, it is shootable,
>shooting it loses its collectable status, and the weakness of the metal
>being that old, could also mean it could very well blow up in your
>hand. Only a good gunsmith can tell you if that particular firearm is
>usable.
>Another option is have a firearms business or FFL owner in your home
>state buy the firearm from the gun show dealer and they ship it to him.
>This deals with more communications between the FFL/business at home
>and the dealer at the gun show.
>If you are the owner of the firearm in your home state, you can bring
>the firearm to and from LV, and can package the firearm and send it
>with your luggage.
>Transport of firearms on a commercial airline, requires declaring the
>item and separate, special very marked packaging when checking it in
>with your luggage, which includes the firearm being NOT loaded.
>Terrorism and the TSA guy going through your luggage will get a bad
>reaction to seeing firearms and ammo along with your clothes. That is
>why it cannot be combined.
>Having such packaging and markings makes it prime target for theft.
>United recently was one of the worst in luggage theft. Firearms
>magazines have reported that bringing firearms this way is like saying
>to theives: 'steal me'. It will probably never make it to your home
>destination.
Actually, United (or Untied ... http://www.untied.com/) is the only
airline that I can remember having baggage delayed on. They did
eventually find it both times, but they sure had the "it gets there
when it gets there" attitude.
From untied.com:
+Mishandled baggage
+UAL has made some improvements in terms of the percentage of passengers
+experiencing problems with baggage handling, but the airline's ranking
+remains pretty much where it was for the past few years, moving from
+9th place (out of 11 airlines) in 2001 to 7th (out of 10 airlines) in
+2002 and 8th (out of 10 airlines) in the first half of 2003. Currently,
+only American and American Eagle are worse.
Untied is also noted for the Infamous Sarah affair here in Omaha. :(
It's been my last choice in the cases where I do have a choice for
several years now. Unfortunately when you have to get to a smaller
market fast, Untied is often the only practical choice.
Sorry about the digression, back to the gun talk. :)
>Its better to have it shipped via mail, certified and insured.
>Packaging can be different and not so blatent as it contains firearms.
>Another item that isn't allowed on a commercial airline is ammunition.
>No ammuniton can be brought on a plane. Esp with the sensitivity of
>terrorism and bombs, etc. I beleive for it to shipped requires a FFL,
>at least for my state, and only by private companies like UPS and
>Airborne. US Postal I beleive will not allow it.
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Surprised with Vote results:
Michelle writes:
>Hi,
Bula vinaka, beachside ...
>I'm somewhat surprised by the results:
>Aye: 10
>Nay: 10
>Abstain: 8
>Given my earlier comments (on DLVDISC) about the impacts of some of the
>criticism about the original date setting whether there is now a bit of
>back lash?
I don't know about backlash. I expected the motion to carry. I have a
feeling that if it were not a 3-day extension or a simple "slide" of
1-2 days, it would have squeaked by.
>I admit I voted to ABSTAIN, in part because it is of no importance to
>me either way. (BTW my vote was in there)
>It is also surprising that despite the calls for extra days almost
>continuously that the opportunity has not been seized to make next year
>longer.
>You could interpret the results in several ways:
>Nay + Abstain = 18 over 10: Does this mean that 18 people are happy
>with the length as it is?
>Aye + Abstain = 18 over 10: Does this mean that 18 people are either
>happy or don't care if the dates are extended?
I would interpret the result of the vote to mean that the majority (18 +
10) were "ok" with the original dates, and that 10 preferred, for Mothers
Day, or just wanting it longer, whatever, the three-day extension.
My hunch is that the "dammit, we made a decision we should stick to it"
contingent is more in number than the "oh sh*t, it's Mothers Day, we
should change it" contingent.
>Is 28 a representative sample compared to the 24? That voted for the
>original dates?
I'm a bit surprised that we had more votes received for the extension
issue than for the original dates. I think a few who were dozing off
were woken up by the noise on the discussion list.
I do think that 24/28 is a valid sample of our ORG group in both cases.
>In fact, (apart from Annie) we don't know how many abstentions have
>come from disgruntled Mother Days activists because they don't care and
>weren't coming anyway!
Well, the loudest "disgruntled Mother Days activist" is not a member of
the ORG group, even though she was invited at least twice to join.
>And none of this really tells us if there is actually a ground swell of
>support for a complete date change.
My hunch is that a motion for a complete date change or a motion to
invalidate the dates and begin the date selection process over would
have failed by quite a margin.
>I would have thought that order of decision making is more along the
>lines of:
>1. Week of DLV
>2. Length
>3. Activities
That's more or less the way we're doing it. Our original vote was really
on the week, with options to extend (length). We're now in the process
of planning activities.
>We voted for a week that some disagreed with. We've now voted on the
>length issue in order to try and resolve and issues around the week
>that DLV is set for. I don't think that was ever going to work well. I
>suspect we need to do something to but the date/week issue to rest for
>good... or at least until we review the 2005 weeks!
I'll be presenting a motion shortly which will (if carried) prevent
such items in the future.
I think the recently-failed motion was a well-intentioned attempt to
kill two birds with one stone ... longer DLV for those who want it and a
full 6 days for the "it's Mothers Day, the sky is falling" crowd.
>Don't you just hate votes (decisions) that produce meaninglessly close
>results or fail to resolve the issue at hand!!!
I think there is a clear conclusion to the vote here, that being the
majority (10 + 8) are either satisfied with the dates, or do not think
it's a big enough issue to change them.
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Tired of hearing it:
Aiko writes:
>For the past few weeks, I've been reading the thread about the horror
>of having DLV conflict with Mother's Day, and to be quite honest, I'm
>getting a little tired of hearing it. The latest is a proposal to add
>the Sunday prior to Mother's Day weekend to the DLV schedule.
>If those individuals that are complaining about the Mother's Day
>weekend would like to organize the activities for the aforementioned
>Sunday, I'd be willing to vote for the extension. If they are not,
>then let their complaints "rest in peace".
Not to keep bringing this up, but there always seems to be a calling for
a longer DLV. A longer DLV by itself sounds like a Good Thing<tm> but
there are other factors that we need to consider, such as the effort
required to plan (quality) things to fill the time, plus the added
expense for everybody's hotel for the additional time, plus the time
off from work/family/etc. There are some practical limits. ...
The one thing I don't want to see is silence now and then another round
of "it's Mothers Day, the sky is falling" in February or something.
Assuming the motion on the floor fails, if anybody else has any more
rescheduling items, please speak NOW or forever hold it. I will STRONGLY
oppose any 11th hour (or even 9th hour) attempts to change the dates.
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Summary schedule of activities:
This schedule is preliminary and is subject to change
without notice.
Monday, May 3:
10:00am Trip to Rhyolite (Rhyolite)
1:00pm Lunch with or without Ginger (Sahara buffet)
5:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
6:00pm Milano's dinner (Milano's)
8:00pm Welcome Celebration (Flex or Spotlight)
Tuesday, May 4:
12:30pm Boat cruise (Lake Mead)
1:00pm Lunch with or without Ginger (Sahara buffet)
1:30pm Bowling (Bowling alley)
5:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Wednesday, May 5:
9:00am Air Tours (Henderson Executive Airport)
11:00am Hidden Woman Open House (Sahara (suite))
12:00n Buffet Lunch (Bellagio buffet)
1:00pm Lunch with or without Ginger (Sahara buffet)
2:00pm Shopping expedition (LV Premium Outlets)
5:00pm Happy Hour (Hard Rock Cafe)
6:00pm Hard Rock Dinner (Hard Rock Cafe)
Ev Secretaries Night (HRC)
10:00pm Karaoke (Goodtimes)
Ev Limo Tour (TBD)
Thursday, May 6:
2:00am Charles Bar get-together (Bellagio)
10:00am Art tour (TBD)
1:00pm Lunch with or without Ginger (Sahara buffet)
PM Indoor skydiving (Flyaway)
PM Glamour Boutique Open House (Glamour Boutique)
4:00pm High Tea (TBD)
5:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Production show (TBD)
Friday, May 7:
AM-PM Golf (Desert Rose)
1:00pm Lunch with or without Ginger (Sahara buffet)
5:00pm Happy Hour (Carluccio's)
6:00pm Carluccio's Dinner (Carluccio's Tivoli Gardens)
7:30pm Annual Mixer (Goodtimes)
Saturday, May 8:
10:00am Claude Hall Gun Show (Cashman Field)
11:00am SBS Garden Party (Mindy's residence)
5:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
12:00m Rocky Horror Picture Show (Highly tentative)
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Administrivia:
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