You probably have a great answer for this

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This posting is from: Roni
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Each year I read about DLV and pass. There is a lot of "not to do_s."

While I can abide with most of them, even lower heels. YUCK

How are over 100 cross-dressers not going to _GATHER_ for:

Diva Las Vegas Invitational Golf, An Art Tour , Lunch With Lori
Walking Off Your Lunch, English High Tea, Etiquette - Comportment
workshop. A Happy Hour, Eating Out Night, with the Milanos option,
Blue Ox option, Nora's choice, Trevi option. A Slot Tournament, The
Fremont Street Experience, Theater Night, Bowling, Love show. The Big
Show Pity Party, Walking to A Limo Tour, Glamour Boutique Open House, A
Happy Hour, Anniversary Celebration, Dinner, Gaming option, Drinking
option, And the Dancing option?

As you indicated, more than 2 would be "noticed" no matter what their
gender.

Sign me a little confused. roni


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This posting is from: Caitlin
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>How are over 100 cross-dressers not going to _GATHER_ for:

It's not as if everybody goes to everything.


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This posting is from: Aiko
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>If you come to DLV looking for a protected environment where you wish
>to indulge solely in a series of cross dressing fantasies, this
>probably not the event. Those that come tend on the whole to be
>presenting and acting as women for most if not all of their time in Las
>Vegas. I know I do.

Very well stated, Michelle. The Conditions Of Participation (COP) and
Behavior, Dress, Restroom (BDR) were created as guidelines for everyone.
DLV has some very mainstream activities, and the COP and BDR is
enforced for the overall comfort of the majority.


>Every year we see a proportion of cross dressers who really don't "get
>it". They are 6 plus feet tall, turn up, in short skirts, very high
>heels, garish make up and teeter on a clearly uncomfortable,
>"unwalkable" pair of shoes to the embarrassment of us all...and this is
>to breakfast, or lunch.

With very few exceptions, the past few DLVs have been remarkably free of
negative incidents. Most of those who want to live out their CD
fantasies have either not recently attended DLV, or have moved on to
other T* events that are more closeted/safe/tolerant of that type of
attitude.

(Aiko on her soapbox)

As a group, I can say that we are very tolerant of people who try to fit
into the COP and BDR guidelines. It is those who blatantly ignore the
guidelines and embarass the majority that should and will be confronted.

Everyone who attends DLV spends a considerable amount of money,
considering travel, hotel, meals, and yes..gambling. It would be a
shame to let a thoughtless few spoil the vacation for everyone.

(Aiko of her soapbox.)

That's my opintion.

Comments?


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This posting is from: annie
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>There is a lot of "not to do_s."

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding here, and you are not the
only one. Those "not to dos" quite possibly don't apply to you.

Let's talk about those to whom these "not to dos" are directed.

They are a small minority within our populace.

The vast majority of our people know how to dress and behave in
mainstream public and they do it. They don't need any admonitions
to do it and they appreciate it when the others do so as well.

Those to whom these guidelines are directed fall into two classes:

1. Those who honestly and genuinely don't know what is appropriate to
wear where and when.

These are the ones who ask for more and more detail as to what is to be
worn to what. (We didn't write dress guidelines so we could dictate, we
wrote it because it was asked for.) They have consistently asked for
more and more detail sooner. They are the ones who send in photos for a
fashion critique. They are the ones who will book an instructional
makeover with Steph or Amy. These may be this year's newbees, but will
be next year's Big Sisters!

2. Those who seek attention, saying "f*ck you" to the rules.

We're hoping that these types will get the hint and seek their
attention elsewhere. Most of them have.

>While I can abide with most of them, even lower heels. YUCK

Hmmmm ... ya know, I'm quite familiar with all of the dress
documents and I'm having a hard time remembering where any
directive of "lower heels" or anything like that appears.

One misunderstanding that seems to be out there is that there's some
kind of a mandate for all attendees to wear more conservative and more
casual styles. This was never intended.

The one term that does appear, over and over and over, is
"appropriate", in particular when we're talking about general
public settings.

"Appropriate" works many ways. For example, it's very "appropriate"
to wear something like a miniskirt, fishnets, and 6" heels to the
Night Of The Soiled Doves or the Alternative Bar Crawl. (Hmmmm ...
those two seem to be missing from your litany.)

>How are over 100 cross-dressers not going to _GATHER_ for:

>As you indicated, more than 2 would be "noticed" no matter what their
>gender.

I think there's another misunderstanding here. Nobody is attempting to
make the group invisible. We realize that is impossible. What we are
trying to do is to encourage everybody to help present the group to the
public in as positive a light as possible. This includes, among other
things, refraining from acting in a manner, intentionally or not, that
draws unnecessary attention.

The one principle that forms the foundation of all of our behavior,
dress, and restroom guidelines is this Golden Rule of DLV. That is that
the purpose of DLV is to have fun, but not to have fun at the expense of
others.

Being considerate to others is what this is all about.

>Sign me a little confused. roni

Maybe this will un-confuse you a bit. On our follow-up survey we asked
what the attendees thought of the increased attention to behavior,
dress, and restroom issues. 88% of the responses last year supported the
current level of enforcement. 11% understood why it had to be. Only one
did not support it.

I interpret this to mean that the overwhelming majority of the DLV
attendees want to have a fun and hassle-free vacation without a few
attention-seekers spoiling it for everybody.


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This posting is from: Ginger
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Roni,

I can appreciate your question. We look at ourselves as ambassadors for
the transgendered community. We encourage everyone participating in DLV
events to present herself or himself as a lady or gentlemen, especially
when mixing with the public, and to always wear the kind of makeup,
shoes, and other clothing a born member of that gender would likely wear
for her or his age and the place.

When we have events at gay bars and other such places, the rules are
very much relaxed. Even then we want our participants to avoid
attracting unwarranted attention as they leave and enter their hotels
and take public transportation to and from such events.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we have transgendered people of all
kinds at DLV. Some of us, especially post-ops, can't go back; we live in
our chosen genders 24/7. However, the two-hundred-fifty pound, 6'4"
tall, fetish cross-dresser with a handlebar mustache can wear a blue
wig, knee-high 6" platform boots, and let-it-all-hang-out 4" strapless
dress tonight, but be a good looking guy tomorrow. Having seen this
person dressed this way and acting in a loud boorish manner in the
casino hotel lobby bar the previous evening, how is the average middle
class family of four likely to react to the 24/7 post-op in the casino
buffet at lunch the next day? Not well and that's the point!

How we act and dress can and will affect the attitude of others and
shape their actions toward us and other members of our community.
Selfish inconsiderate behavior is simply unacceptable at DLV or
elsewhere. There are already too many with unfounded prejudices against
us to encourage others to oppose us because of the inconsiderate
behavior and appearance of a few.

Come and join us at DLV. However, please reserve your club wear for
appropriate clubs other such places. I think you will have a great time
and no problems living within the rules which are reasonable!

Hugs,


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This posting is from: Caitlin
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What is this questioning really all about? What one should do or not do?
Is it an enquiry of who is acceptable? I personally think that I'd never
pass whilst wandering through the local upstream couture.

However, those folks that know me accept me for who, and what, I am. I
tend not to attempt to try to deceive people. It can be a tad bit
difficult to stuff a person who is 6'2" into a petite hatbox. Trust me,
I tried, it looked rather damned foolish.

Sorry, but I don't really try to look like Auntie Emm anymore. Heck, I
can't even find that damn Toto as of lately.

But I try to do as well as I can (yippee! genetics really suck!). But
who am I fooling? Me? nah.... I just make an attempt at looking
presentable.

But I typically get comments of worth from the "gg's".

What more can I ask for, except an amputation below the knees?

So, if you're 5'8" or whatever, please just leave me alone. I hate
who I am without your input. Genetics suck. It wasn't like I had a
choice.

Thanks, Caitlin

PS: I bet my butt is better than yours, and I don't need no stinking
pads, so there!!!


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This posting is from: Aiko
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>What is this questioning really all about? What one should do or not
>do? Is it an enquiry of who is acceptable? I personally think that I'd
>never pass whilst wandering through the local upstream couture.

Very few of us meet all of the criteria that would allow us to blend and
pass in mainstream with ease. I believe the subject is to raise the
conscious level that openly flaunting of transgenderism at DLV is not
acceptable.

The reason for the enhanced enforcement of the COP and BDR really came a
few years ago when several negatuve incidents were caused by a few
selfish individuals who had the attitude of "I know I don't pass, so I'm
going to do whatever I want". An example of this was someone wearing a
costume, walking through a casino, and making a beeline for the ladies
restroom. Needless to say, this awakened security and caused undue
restrictions on restroom use in this particular hotel.

>However, those folks that know me accept me for who, and what, I am. I
>tend not to attempt to try to deceive people. It can be a tad bit
>difficult to stuff a person who is 6'2" into a petite hatbox. Trust me,
>I tried, it looked rather damned foolish. Sorry, but I don't really try
>to look like Auntie Emm anymore.

Women come in all shapes and sizes, even 6'2" +. It's not a matter of
trying to deceive anyone into thinking we are gg's, but to present an
image that is acceptable and doesn't flaunt transgenderism.

I could point to several of our attendees who are quite tall, and
present and dress themselves in a way that is very acceptable and
fashionable.

>But I try to do as well as I can (yippee! genetics really suck!). But
>who am I fooling? Me? nah.... I just make an attempt at looking
>presentable. But I typically get comments of worth from the "gg's".

If you're getting comments of worth from gg's, then maybe you can give
the rest of us some helpful tips and suggestions. :)

Along with a good presentation, it could be as simple as your smile and
confidence that shows through.


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This posting is from: Hollye Merton
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Roni,

I have not been to DLV in years mainly because of circumstances that
keep me from it each year. However, I must say that some girls do need a
bit of guidance (and should accept it if they want to learn).

One year I remember a girl loudly proclaiming at the golf course that '
this group is DLV crossdressing group ready for tee-off'. This was
extremely embarrassing to me (and I am sure others) and also could have
put some of us at risk.

Unfortunately, while the world is getting better with transgender
issues, there are many out there that would do harm to us given half the
chance. Girls not dressing appropriately or acting so could cause
someone to be harmed if the wrong person is incited.

That being said, the reality is, if you can't walk gracefully in a set
of heels, CHOP them lower or go with flats! As for 100 trannies running
around in a group ... well you have a point there ....eeek! The main
point is the few times in DLV that this happens, it is generally in a
place that is relatively OK as long as everyone acts as ladylike as
possible.

Well I hope you all have fun. I will be finishing up my final three
classes and graduating shortly afterward. Remember everyone, in casual
passing, men nod their head and look away, most women grant a warm smile
and maybe a polite greeting.

Have a great time and say hi to the IP for me. Maybe I will see you all
next year.

Margeth


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This posting is from: annie
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>Women come in all shapes and sizes, even 6'2" +.

Ya know, as I think back over the years of DLV and try to think of the
best examples of those who truly blend in mainstream situations, two
individuals come to mind immediately. Both of them are over 6' tall. I
hate to try to guess weight, but neither of them are in any way svelte.
However, they both blend in to the point of being undetectable.

Why?

I think it's because they're not trying to be something they can't be.
They don't try to come off as 20 year old hotties. They are comfortable
with their age and size and make the most of what they have.


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This posting is from: Michelle Jenkins
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Roni,

FIRSTLY:

The list of NOT to DO's is for your protection when you're not with the
(a large) group as much as anything. When we congregate we do get
noticed but unless there is some really stupid (perhaps even suicidal)
redneck around all they (the great unwashed) do is stare, giggle and in
most cases ignore us.

However the problems arise when you leave this group situation, a wee
bit like a gazelle leaving a herd of gazelles and being picked off by
the local lions or lionesses.

Most, perhaps even all, of the bathroom incidents have happened when a
group has been in the area but an individual has been approached.

SECONDLY:

When we are in a group, special functions aside, we asked for level of
deportment, decorum and and general behaviour that explemplifies ladies
not drunken teenage whores (if you'll excuse the expression). When in a
group of TG's however large, those with garish makeup, six inch high
heels or mini skirts that not reach the the top of the thigh create and
impression, irrespective of how the others are dressed.

The girl who wears an evening gown to the mall while others are wearing
jeans and a T-shirt, whether TG or real honest to god, female flesh (!,
again apologies) is bound to create an impression and get VERY noticed.

THIRDLY:

Some of us, and this may only be me of course (:-)) prefer to be as
inconspicuous as possible and "fly under the radar". This is for our own
personal security and protection. While I'm sure that both real and TG
girls can and will get molested, doing as much as possible to avert such
a situation is good common sense.

NOW GENERALLY:

I've been meaning to make the following point for a while now but never
seemed to get round to writing it.

DLV is not about cross dressing. Its about dressing as women and going
out as women and enjoying life as women... this not meaning that you
can't attend many of the activities in boy mode.

If you come to DLV looking for a protected environment where you wish to
indulge solely in a series of cross dressing fantasies, this probably
not the event. Those that come tend on the whole to be presenting and
acting as women for most if not all of their time in Las Vegas. I know I
do.

Every year we see a proportion of cross dressers who really don't "get
it". They are 6 plus feet tall, turn up, in short skirts, very high
heels, garish make up and teeter on a clearly uncomfortable,
"unwalkable" pair of shoes to the embarrassment of us all...and this
is to breakfast, or lunch.

As for the low heeled shoes, these are girls best friend in LV where one
typically has to walk miles to get anywhere. I love high heels as much
as the next girls but walking and standing in them for 4-6 hours for an
evening out can be tiring and painful.

Anyway my thoughts for the year. I will now creep back into my hole and
pop up again next year some time!

Hugs
Michelle


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