From: Diva Las Vegas organizers (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Date: Wed Jun 25 2008 - 08:04:02 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
This mailing
Dates
Activities
Activity discussion
Administrative Committee motion
Updated electorate list
Administrivia
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Org List:
This is the DLV 2009 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
This mailing:
Good continuing discussion on the dates and activities!
Sorry these mailings are so long. We can expect items of more
reasonable length as the discussion settles down.
One note about the discussion, particularly on my remarks, I may
sound somewhat critical at times. I'm not trying to summarily
poo-poo ideas and comments. I'm questioning, constructively, and
attempting to put these in the context of the real world as
it happens in the hour-by-hour, day-to-day context of DLV.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Dates:
Jamie writes:
>I like the dates in the end of April, like this year.
>The 4 Seasons has limited days for Tea. I think the optimum days are
>Tues Wed Thurs. Not to conflict with Golf.
>EnFemm Getaway is now only in the Fall. The organizers have worked
>themselves to overload.
>A Sunday to Friday would also work better with my Condo times.
. . . . .
Ginger writes:
>>Discussion on the 2009 dates; Comments, gang?
>None of the proposed dates are good for my SO and I next year,
>since we have to be home on May 1 and 2 and also on May 15 and
>16 for long standing annual obligations, but we can come early
>and leave early and that's probably what we will do.
>The upside is the air fares should be less! No complaints and
>sometimes we just have to accept that the moon and stars don't
>align at all!
>From what I'm hearing, you're "ok" with these dates even though
you will have to depart early. Is this correct?
. . . . .
Kimberly Kael writes:
>I think the pattern of looking at heavy traffic weeks in Vegas
>and trying to minimize room rates is entirely reasonable. This
>is likely to maximize the number of people who can afford to
>attend, whether for the whole week or a handful of days.
>I'm less convinced about the logic of avoiding the weekend.
>I suspect that the analysis suggesting that mid-week is the most
>popular time is flawed. The reason? Very few people are likely
>to attend DLV for only a single day and this is going to skew your
>results to make the middle of the week look "more popular." Picture
>a 3-day schedule where 15 people pick a single day at random (5 each
>day), 60 pick two consecutive days at random (30 for day 1+2, 30 for
>day 2+3), and 25 stay all three days. The distribution across these
>days will average out at 60 on day one, 90 on day two, and 60 on day
>three. Despite nobody having any preference it looks like the second
>day was the "most popular."
>All that said, I think the Sunday-Friday April 26-May 1st schedule
>sounds fine.
>On hotels:
>I believe Paris should be recognized for marketing directly to the
>GLBT community and I had a wonderful time staying there this year,
>as well as dancing at the cabaret after several of the evening
>events.
>I'd heartily recommend it for those who don't mind the expense and
>crowds. The fairly sizable bathroom sink area and well-positioned
>makeup mirror were substantial bonuses.
In light of Paris' statements of recognition of the GLBT business,
and in particular the inclusion of the "T" ("no equali_y without
the T"), I think Paris is an excellent candidate for one of our
suggested hotels next year.
We won't be actively discussing hotels for a few months, but when
we do, please place Paris in nomination.
. . . . .
Holly writes:
>I would like to to see Option 2 (Monday through Saturday) given some
>consideration.
>Rational- many participants like to come in a day early (Sunday for
>a Monday start) to get settled in and ready for the week ahead.
>Coming in on a Saturday may be difficult as many hotels require a
>Friday/Saturday stay.
>Also will some of our vendors be available on a Sunday? I know
>Glamour Boutique is normally closed on Sunday's. Just a couple of
>things to consider... not willing to go to the wall over either
>timeframe.
We're now influential enough with the vendors that they will
adjust the schedule for us if they want the business. We've
started to see this already. :)
. . . . .
We now have two timeframes under consideration:
1. Sunday, April 26 thru Friday, May 1.
2. Monday, April 27 thru Saturday, May 2.
Are there any other timeframes to be considered? If so, speak
now.
Otherwise, please continue thoughts. Let's plan on a call for
votes on this about the second week in July or so.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Activities:
Let's review the specific activity suggestions which were
submitted this year.
If those who suggested these activities are here with us,
this is your cue to jump in and get things rolling.
It's up to you (yes, YOU, including new volunteers) to take
the initiative to move forward on the items you want to see
happen. If you're unclear, uncertain, or uneasy to take
something on, let us know. We'll point you in the right
direction.
. . . . .
Holly writes:
>Also, I have a thought for an activity that I think might
>satisfy the interest in a costume party that has been recently
>bought up...
>is it too early to begin activity discussions?
There's talk in the Discussion Forum about a costume party.
No, it's not too early to discuss specific activities, and if
you have any particular ideas, please get them in.
Most of the people who participated in the costume party
thread on the Discussion Forum are on this list.
Go4it! Let's hear your ideas!
. . . . .
+We need a shooting match!
I know that wheels are turning on this one.
. . .
+It would be nice to have an expression meeting on the better
+understanding of the different TG cultures.
I'm really somewhat unsure what was intended here, but I think
the idea was for something like a roundtable discussion.
We had a roundtable in 2007. These are not that difficult to
put on. I'm sure we have several vendors who would host this
in return for the bar business.
All this needs is for somebody (like you, yes, YOU) to "adopt"
this and make it happen. :)
. . .
+How about a Cirque show?
Show fans? How about it? :)
. . .
+Also, with all the Biggest Loser talk, how about a daily
+aerobic exercise program? There's got to be a local gymn
+that will do this for us.
I honestly don't know how practical this is, or how much demand
there would be for it in the heat of battle, on a morning after
the Limo Tour or the Charles Bar.
In light of Ginger's response to the walk-off-your-lunch thing
(see below), I'm even questioning this more, sorry.
I guess we need to see if any of us will pick up the (medicine)
ball and run with it. :)
. . .
+A DLV Fashion Show perhaps sponsored by some major department
+store with proceeds going to some local charity. I think this
+would be fun and meaningful but I wouldn't know how to organize
+it.
I hope the one who suggested this is with us here.
As I said in the Discussion Forum, I think it will be easier
to get one of our regular supportive vendors (Studio Lites,
Glamour Boutique) to work with us on this rather than a major
department store.
Those who want to see something like this, please move forward
and get some ideas on the table.
. . . . .
+Bring back air tours.
This will, unfortunately, cost somebody some real money if it's
to happen.
Densie? Gina?
. . . . .
+Burlesque nite,
Uh ... ??? :)
. . . . .
+How about some more shopping events
These are easy low-maintenance activities for somebody who wants
to do them. All you really have to do is say where and when and
such.
They don't tend to draw mobs of our people, but all of them have
always generated a fair turnout.
Some twists on the theme might be things like thrift-store or
Primm mall shopping. These have happened before.
+and perhaps a night at the movies.
Other than RHPS, we've never had any great luck with these, even
though such activities have appeared on the schedule a few times
throughout our history. They seem to just not happen.
There's nothing saying we can't try this again, but if we do,
I would like to see it be a consciencious effort to make it
happen, with plans as to what film, what theater, what time,
etc.
+What about Magic shows?, there were none on the DLV list
+this year.
Show fans? Anyone want to take this one on?
. . .
+I would like to see one or two activities where we all could
+be at the same venue, so we could see everybody who attended DLV.
[snip-paste]
+It would have been nice to meet ALL the girls who attended DLV,
+the 150 or so.
I do agree that we need some maximum-attendance functions.
I think two of these is best, one toward the beginning
of the week, another toward the end. I think we need more than
one, just due to our coming-and-going nature. More than two,
and we will start seeing (more) people skipping them and doing
their own thing.
Venue selection for maximum-attendance things is critical to
getting an optimal turnout. We can't force hardcore mainstream
here simply for the fact that those who are just coming out
will not show, period, QED. We also can't force a venue which
is seen by some as "too alternative", since some will use that
as an excuse to skip it.
IMAO, Blue Ox is a perfect venue for this. I think Alexis Park
has possibilities, assuming the management is realistic about
things.
Bahama Breeze has served us well for such things for two years
now, following two previous years of mixed reviews.
I am starting to hear comments about Bahama Breeze becoming
repetitive. Any thoughts on this?
. . .
There are multiple requests for a more upscale larger gathering,
perhaps a big dress-up affair.
>+Not sure how this can be done, perhaps a Glamour
>+Ball for one of the nights that all can attend????
>+dress is more and more everyday each year, even for the big
>+events. how about a big dress-up ball, let everyone glam it
>+up a bit.
>+If possible to have a formal event with a banquet style meal and
>+entertainment.
I think it would be a Good Thing<tm> if we could do some kind of a
dress-up maximum-attendance thing. To get our optimum turnout, we
would probably have to have "nice casual at minimum" dress for
something like this, but encourage those who want to dress up to
do so.
The only question is where. :) Ideas?
. . .
>+I would like more group functions (happy hours) but I understand.
Larger happy hours?
There's been talk of larger single-venue daily happy hours since
the early 2000s. IMAO, happy hours work best when they occur in
the same venue (or very close) to a subsequent meal. The larger
meals therefore get a large happy hour, the smaller (EON) things
get smaller happy hours. I really think we're close to optimum
on our happy hours.
Comments?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Activity discussion:
Ginger writes:
>>I didn't hear much about the Walk Off Your Lunch, but I assume
>>it happened, at least on some days, since it did get rated on
>>the survey. Ginger?
>There seemed to be little if any interest and with my SO with
>me I often seem to have other plans! :) From the Palace Station
>there didn't seem to be a reasonable or even safe destination.
>Most days there was no interest.
>From good starting points like the Paris and I couldn't, I
>made suggestions. I'm of the opinion that an after lunch walk
>about is of little interest and sometimes not practical since
>we've left the Sahara.
>I think it's time to take it off the schedule.
Ok, gang, the founder of this activity is suggesting it be
removed from the schedule.
It was well-intended, and we thank Ginger for doing it, but
if it's not going to be attended, we really don't have much
of a choice on it.
If nobody steps up to "adopt" the walk-off-your-lunch, it will
be cancelled for 2009.
Going once ...
. . . . .
Norma writes:
>Comments in red...
Just a housekeeping note here. These mailings are colorblind.
The list processor strips out anything other than plain text.
>>Still, I think that Rock Star Karaoke, should it be going on
>>next year, is a good candidate for DLV.
>I do not deal well with LOUD. . . I likely would not attend any
>karaoke event.
Don't worry! I don't envision something like this as a single-track
activity. It's most likely a one-of-many, or a late-night option.
>>English High Tea (Four Seasons - MS)
>>Again, didn't hear too much.
>I thought it was absolutely delightful!
. . . . .
Kimberly Kael writes:
>On mainstream venues:
>The observation that "more mainstream" should probably be
>interpreted as "more mingling with the general public" rings
>true for me. I found that some of my most rewarding
>experiences felt as much like an outreach program as a vacation.
Public outreach, in and of itself, is not a stated purpose of DLV.
However, various attendees have taken this on themselves, going
way back to the early days of DLV, and if that's what they want
to do, it's well within the scope of what DLV can be to them.
We do have to be very careful, however, especially when doing
such things as recruting others, particularly newcomers, to be
"outreach ministers" so to speak.
As Ginger has pointed out, these displays from the general
public of such things as curiosity and amusement are often
times misinterpreted by TGs to be displays of approval and
acceptance, even by those who have clocked many "flight
hours" in the mainstream!
Some of our people just eat this up, the public attention, that
is, while others are scared $#!+less by it.
>Perhaps we should consider an additional designation for events
>next year? Instead of just describing them as mainstream vs.
>alternative we could add private/semi-private/public
>descriptors to help avoid confusion on things like the limo
>tour.
We do have three, actually four, designations for activities,
those being "Safe Venue" (alternative), "Major Venue", (partly
mainstream or mainstream with limited exposure), and "Mainstream",
which is just as it sounds. These will appear on the ORG copy of
the working schedule once we get it started.
The fourth is a kind of a deprecated "Non-DLV" category, which
really does not apply to anything that appears on our schedule.
This coming year we'll be adding a rating on each activity which
designates the degree of general public contact, which may or may
not correspond with safe/major/mainstream venue classification.
. . .
>On the golf tournament:
>I participated in the golf tournament and had a great time.
>It's a shame there wasn't more opportunity to mingle but that's
>the nature of the beast, I suspect. I do wonder if we shouldn't
>think about other formats that are less about playing our
>individual games and more about collaboration or teamwork,
>like a scramble format. I don't know that the prize angle added
>much to the experience, but it wasn't a negative either. I'm
>definitely planning to sign up again next year.
. . .
>On the Charles bar:
>I hate to be the one who always complains about the directions
>to events, and I don't think turn-by-turn directions to things are
>necessary, but DLV does sometimes feel like there's an "in crowd"
>and you have to know the history to know what's going on. None of
>the hotel staff at the front desk knew what I was talking about
>when I asked about the Charles bar or the Allegro bar.
>There certainly isn't any signage that calls it by either name.
>Please think of the newcomer and provide useful directions
>next year!
The removal of the name "Allegro Bar" was unknown to us prior to
DLV. The name still appeared on the Bellagio property map when I
checked it about two weeks prior to DLV.
As Gina has noted, it's now the "Where the bar has no name", or
"The bar formerly known as Allegro", or ...
>"It's the bar next to Caramels."
.. yes, the "casino bar just to the left of Caramel" or
something like that.
I have a feeling that by next year there will either be a new
official name for it, or it may be moved or removed.
The removal of the signage and the removal of the name from the
Bellagio property maps tells me that some kind of a change is
impending.
. . .
>On the upscale / Stratosphere dinner:
>We had a fine time once everyone arrived. I spent 15 minutes
>waiting at the designated location and finally waited by the
>elevator to the restaurant until one more person arrived.
>We went up and waited another 10+ minutes before most of
>the rest arrived.
>Suggestion: please ask event organizers to show up on time
>or even early, ask them to not leave the meeting location
>until 5-10 minutes after the stated team (not a problem in
>this case but it was in one other), and in the case of
>meals provide the full name the reservation is under
>(there was more than one reservation for Diane around the
>same time.)
I wasn't aware of a "missed connection" at this activity.
We do encourage our organizers to be on time, or at least have
the venue covered at the posted start time, plus actively look
for stragglers.
However, $#!+ happens, and things don't always work out the way
we intend them to.
A few lessons learned this year are to have those covering the
contact phone numbers have contact information for as many of
the activity coordinators as we can get. We also need to make
an effort to emphasize the meeting locations of the various
activities, and what they can do if they can't find the group.
>I was amused that even after all the warnings about the price
>of this restaurant that we had two people leave after looking
>at the menu, which was if anything slightly more reasonable
>than we had been led to expect. I suspect this is unavoidable.
My guess is that they may have found that there was nothing on
the menu which appealed to them, or more specifically, nothing
on the menu which (LOL) appealed to them enough to pay the
price. :)
. . .
On the Bahama Breeze:
>My sole disappointment here was that the staff clearly expected
>us to find a seat and stay put from happy hour through dinner.
Not to be a snot here, but that's their problem, not ours! :)
>They should probably be advised that the goal of the evening was
>to get people to move around and mingle, and therefore to ask for
>cash up front during happy hour to better enable this.
A couple years ago they sure chased me down awfully fast when I
changed tables. :) It's really their job to handle those things.
My concern about BB is that some are stating that it's getting
repetitive.
. . . . .
Joan writes:
>>We need venues at which those who are newly-out can feel
>>comfortable, both for the smaller multi-track activities and
>>for the larger maximum-attendance gatherings.
>Very true. I'd like to think the venues that I've used fit that
>bill.
>Lake Mead Boat Tour
>Two Gals Restaurant
>Bellagio Buffet. Petrossian/Baccarat/Allegro Bar, Conservatory
>South Point Casino
>Prime rib Loft, (Orleans Casino).
>Unofficial pre DLV venues:
>MCC Church
>Jin Mee Korean Restaurant.
>What do you think?
Other than MCC, those are all mainstream venues. They may be
TG-oblivious, but they do not exude a significant degree of
comfort for those just coming out.
>>For those who wish more of a migration into mainstream venues,
>>you need to do some homework, and find such venues which will
>>still satisfy that requirement of comfort for those who are
>>newly-out.
>Again Very true. It took me a while before I felt up to
>trying the Adventuredome.
>>+We should all be old enough now to read a map.
>True. But if we do the boat tour again, I'll try to make
>more specific directions from the staging point proposed
>to be at A Harmony Nail Spa.
>>I think some of those who call for "more mainstream" are those
>>who wish to get more mainstream experience and estsblish more
>>of a comfort level in mainstream public.
>I think so. It takes practice and repetition to get used to
>something.
>>+>5b. Is this to mean that you, the attendees, think that the
>>+>number of mainstream-venue activities is inadequate?
>I wouldn't go so far as to say that.
>>+You need to keep them in balance. Those who object to the gay
>>+bars are just being pretenitious about it.
>I wouldn't quite think that. I think we should get away from
>straight versus gay. If it's a good venue, use it.
>I really have nothing against gay bars. Some I'm sure are
>very welcome and safe for the DLV community, and some may not be.
Most of them (Goodtimes, Flex, Spotlight, Escape) welcome our
business. Freezone is off/on again depending on how many restroom
complaints they've been getting recently.
All of these do tend to be dark and smoky, something which many
of our people don't like.
LVL is a prostitution raid just waiting to happen!
>>I don't see alternative venues going away as long as there are
>>good turnouts at safe-venue activities.
>I don't think any venue should go away if people are enjoying
>themselves there.
I want to see activities and venues which facilitate inclusion
rather than exclusion.
I think Escape Lounge is an example of one place that is safe
for rank newbees, where those who have been out for decades
can have an enjoyable time too.
Blyss would have been another good example, but that's a moot
point now.
We do need a certain number of activities where our more
experienced attendees can mingle with and get to know those
who are new and newly-out. Yes, the activities at which this
is most likely to happen will be on the alternative side of
that great mainstream-alternative divide.
This year I observed a lot more interaction between the
longtimers and the newcomers. This is a Good Thing, which I
hope continues.
I hope that DLV continues on the path of more cohesion and
inclusion. Yes, the TG community tends to fragment itself
naturally.
Speaking very freely, I hope that the little cliques which
go off and do their own thing could be a little more inclusive,
partcularly along the line of including newcomers.
We didn't have any complaints this year about the group being
cliquish, so hopefully this is improving.
I also wish that those who consider themselves to be of any
kind of advanced standing be a little more respectful of those
who they don't consider to be as advanced, in such thing as
the remarks of "just a crossdresser" and the comments heard
a few years ago referring to crossdressers as "half-sisters"
and such. :( That crap is uncalled for, and does nothing
positive at all, except maybe to one's ego! :(
Yeah I know, bitch-bitch-bitch! :)
. . . . .
>>Pre-DLV MCC:
>>Worked, from what I hear. No issues reported.
>A great turnout. MCC is indeed a welcoming place, and there was
>more interaction between the DLV folks and regular church members.
>A great meal afterward at the Jin Mee Korean restaurant, in
>Commercial Center next to A Harmony Nail Spa.
. . .
>>Pre-DLV gathering, Alexis Park:
>A great meal and service along with it.
. . .
>>+ 1:00pm Lunch With Ginger (Palace Station - MS)
>>I did hear some comments about the quality of the food at the
>>Palace Station. It reportedly had improved from what it was,
>>but from what I heard it was not the best by any means.
>Palace Station is a winner. I found the food to be better
>than it usually was. They've really come a long way. Whenever
>at Palace Station during a lunch hour, ask for Nancy to be
>the server.
. . .
>>+Tuesday, April 22 :
>>+ 10:00am Boat Tour Breakfast
>>+ 12:00n Lake Mead Boat Tour
>>Worked.
>15 for the meal and tour.
. . .
>>+ 6:00pm Local Happy Hour (Bellagio Fontana Bar - MS)
>>+ 7:00pm Local dinner (Bellagio Buffet - MS)
>>These apparently both came off very well.
>Next year I think we'll do this as an informal gathering and
>not schedule dinner at a specific time. We'll perhaps play
>dinner by ear.
The only problem with playing by ear and making venue choices
in real time is that some tend to get left out.
. . .
>>+ 1:00pm Lunch With Ginger (Bellagio Buffet - MS)
>>Again, ditto, this was one day I missed.
>>Comments?
>Bellagio Buffet, a great DLV tradition!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrative Committee motion:
Ginger writes:
>>Item of business -- Administrative Committee:
<SNIP>
>>Do I hear a second?
>I second this proposal!
Thanks, Ginger.
We now have a motion and a second. The floor is open for debate
and discussion on the motion.
When discussion dies down, we'll call for votes on the motion.
. . . . .
Joan writes:
>>This motion codifies what has been defacto operating practice
[deletia]
>>Do I hear a second?
>I second this motion.
Thanks, Joan. We now have multiple seconds.
>Question, how would people nominate, apply, and campaign for
>these positions.
Should the motion carry, we're then required to hold an election
for the two positions, and the nominations will be taken here,
on line.
We have no restrictions on self-nomination, so if you wish to
"apply" for one of the slots, it can be done that way.
As for "campaigning", that would be done via discussion here.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Updated electorate list:
We're going to have a couple of votes coming up in the near
future.
All of you who are of voting status should have received a test
message yesterday, with the subject:
[dlvelect] Test message - no reply is expected ...
If you're shown on the list below as being of voting status and
you did NOT receive the test message, please let us know.
Here's the updated electorate list for DLV 2009:
Aiko
Annie (NE)
Crystal (NY)
Diane (AZ)
Edy
Gina (CA)
Ginger (TN)
Haze
Jamie (AK)
JoAnn
Joan (NV)
Julie Brenda
Kay (TN)
Keri
Kumiko (Yvonne)
LeeAnna
Lori (FL)
Marcia
Mardi
Mary Beth
Michelle (NZ)
Mindy
Nora
Ruthie
Sarah (UT)
Susan (LV)
Virginia
Any errors or omissions?
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Administrivia:
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