Subject: dlvorg Feedback, comments, complaints, issues, etc. ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Wed May 15 2002 - 14:41:22 CDT
In this mailing:
Org List
This mailing
Michelle (NZ) writes
A few notes
Restrooms
Can we tawk
Leah's comments
Administrivia
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Org List:
This is the DLV Organizational List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com) Replies to this
message will be forwarded to the DLV ORG list and not the main DLV list.
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This mailing:
I'm taking a few liberties here, in steering some of the traffic over
here to the org list for our discussion before some items are (may be)
presented to the DLV population in general. Yes, this is kind of the
laundry list of dirty laundry items, which I want to see discussed here
before they are spammed out to 350+ people.
In particular I've moved the restroom comments and all organizational
items over here.
I am still in catch-up mode, so if I seem to be behind on a few things,
I am. :)
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Michelle (NZ) writes:
I'm taking the liberty of moving a couple, and copying several items from
Michelle's excellent summary over here to the org list.
>1. Think we stuffed up the schedule on some days. Thursday had too much
>especially an early start for the Air tours with late night events like
>the Slumber party. Something we need to watch in future is the impact
>of some events on others.
>2. Too much moving places at night. Milanos -> Flex on Wed, Boardwalk
>-> LaFemme on Thurs, Sashas -> GoodTimes on Fri, Palace Station -> Flex
>on Sunday. Couldn't see why we didn't have a night at Sashas or used it
>after Milano's on Tuesday.
When we get into scheduling this coming year, we will have to consider
timing and distance issues more carefully.
While I don't think moving from one venue to another is a Bad Thing, I
think the combination of overscheduling and too many moves over too
short a time overwhelmed us this year.
>3. I enjoyed the activities where groups were "thrown together" and we
>all had a chance to talk as a group. The limo tour, air tour, golf,
>some of the ad hoc meals etc. It was much harder than the big group
>events
>4. I think everyone of the activity organisers did a great job. Monique
>should be one of those Travel Tour guides, the way she carried that
>folder and organised everybody. Mindy did a great job with golf and
>this went off well. Gina, Denise and co with the flights. Aiko with
>Limo tour. Everyone deserves a pat on the back.
Yes (pat-pat-pat)! I lost count of the number of times people remarked
that this event, although informal, was well-organized and how all
activities came off as described and as planned.
>5. This was the best DLV I've been to. No doubt. I was more comfortable
>with the people, the activities and being a woman.
I agree. This was the best one so far, by far. :)
>6. Ditto Gina's comments about smoking. Must say I had a hard time with
>the smoke 'cause of my contacts. I ended up not wearing them for some
>of the indoor evening events.
If I may digress for a few lines here ... It's been my observation over
the past few decades that for some reason, smoking in the t* community
seems to be always higher than in the general population. However, it
does seem to be decreasing over the past several years. I remember back
in 1974 or so, I was the only nonsmoker at a gathering of about 25
people. I remember nonsmokers being a small percentage at t* gatherings
in the 80's.
There's been speculation as to why this is the case, but I have never
heard a concise answer on why. Oh well ...
. . . . .
>DLV 2003
>========
>And to get the ball rolling I would like to tender the following for
>discussion for next years DLV....
>Two streams: Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur activities for advanced crossers etc.
>with a second stream starting Thurs, Fri, Sat and Sun that allows for
>beginners and new comers. Its seems clear to me that things like the
>Limo tour, and the FI show are activities everyone can attend. (Did
>they?) Anyway would like to see some discussion around this
I don't think we will be able to segregate newbees from veterans by
times, but I think we may be able to somewhat guide them along two
tracks of activities at times.
Yes, I agree that the limo tour and FI show appealed to both those just
peeking out and those who have forgotten what a closet is.
>I also think we need to find bigger venues. Milanos was clearly
>s t r e t c h e d on Tuesday. We were lucky at La Femme with getting
>enough seats although in reality the place had quite a few empty spaces
>left. GoodTimes was getting crowded and could easily be small.
I think we've outgrown Milano's, at least for any kind of a regular meal
for the group. I think we will just have to use it as a suggestion for
those who want to visit it on their own.
Goodtimes appeared crowded, but our people were concentrated in the main
lounge area. There were a few in the front patio area, but there was the
whole dance floor area which was empty for most of the evening.
>Mindy (and I) would like to see more at the golf. This a good activity
>to try in girl mode as well as trying out golf in any mode.
>Would like to see that we consolidate around one location on most
>evenings and avoid the mid evening change of location. Eg Sasha's on
>Wednesday , Carluccio's and Goodtimes on Friday, Hotel Buffet in the
>same location as the show (eg MGM Buffet with LaFemme, or Riveria
>Buffet with La Cage, or even one of the restaurants).
>I know $$$'s are an issue for some but I still think there's place for
>using some of the upper end hotels like Bellagio, Paris, Venetian, etc,
>etc. Perhaps more for the advanced student in the early parts of the
>week.
>Issues
>======
>Some one asked about rest room issues. I didn't have any before, during
>or after DLV in LV. I found them OK, went in, did what I had to,
>finished off and came out. No Problems.
>Hangers on. The incident at Goodtimes with the girl fainting was a
>hanger on as I understand it. This will one day be a problem for us. I
>saw a mention about another hanger on causing a restroom problem.
While I originally thought the person who fainted was a tag-along, it
turns out that she did indeed follow procedure and registered. She
apparently never picked up her name tag, so that's why I and others
thought she was a tag-along.
>The same about driving. My comments above were sort of serious in that
>I know I probably had had too much to drink. One day this will cause a
>problem and there will be an incident. Confining us to one location
>each night will reduce the problems.
>Payment for events. Seemed to go well this year but I still think we
>need to look at this for future events, especially where numbers a
>rising and we need to confirm things earlier than the start of DLV.
>Dates and times. Thought the timing was good although maybe we should
>have spread it from Monday through Sunday and targeted some smaller
>things earlier in the week, even if it was just going out to dinner
>together etc. This might happen naturally if we look at the two
>streams.
>Numbers: Well who knows how many will come next year. Bigger numbers
>mean issues for venues, events, logistics, etc.
>Hotel. I thought there should ONLY BE ONE preferred hotel or at least
>if more than one they were side by side. Since I don't stay in hotels
>(I stay in timeshare units / apartments) this doesn't affect me as much
>as others. Anyway that's just my opinion.
There's an argument in favor of diversifying even more than we have
been later on below. I can see both sides of this issue.
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A few notes:
Some of my various comments on a few items:
Please don't get the idea that I'm at all unhappy with the way things
turned out. DLV 2002 was such an amazing success that the glitches
were overshadowed by the good things many times over. However there
are a few items I would like to mention. ...
No-shows:
Overall, we had a lot better results this year regarding total no-shows.
The total no-write no-phone no-show no-nothing people were below 20% of
the expected headcount. Excellent, compared to last year, where we had
40-50% no-shows. I think the activity sign-up and assertive reminders
weeded out many of them beforehand.
Some activities had a no-show problem, particularly the slumber party
and the Glamour Boutique makeup demo. John (owner of GB) asked me to not
push the issue with the no-shows to the demo, since they had a very
profitable week, and he did not want people to have any ill feelings
regarding his store.
I heard that there was somewhat of a fall-out rate for every activity
which required a sign-up, lowest being the limo tour, which had a total
of one no-show, iirc.
. . . . .
Drop-ins and tag-alongs:
I don't really think of this as a Bad Thing, but it was painfully obvious
that people who went out of procedure were out of the loop on things.
I had two people approach me regarding sign-up for certain activities.
In both cases, the conversations were almost identical and went like
this:
p: Uh, how do I get in on the {slumber party | makeup demo} ?
a: Did you read the mailings?
p: Uh, what mailings?
a: Did you register?
p: Uh, {name} said I really didn't have to.
I think it's important that in the future, we encourage our friends who
want to tag along to just take a few minutes and register. It not only
makes our numbers more accurate, but it keeps them in the loop regarding
what's going on and how to get in on all of the things.
I had numerous requests for schedules from people who had not registered.
(e-mail, prior to DLV) In all cases I told them the way to get it was to
register. Very few of them did so.
. . . . .
Rudeness: :(
Both the staff of HW and GB mentioned to me one person who they regarded
as rude and unpleasant. They both mentioned this to me without any
coaxing, and from the description it was obvious they were talking about
the same person. Anthony said he was one step from asking the person to
leave the premesis.
In another case, Leona remarked that she had to very assertively ask
another person to back off during the time she was doing a makeover.
With our larger crowds and diverse personalities, I don't think we can
always prevent this, but I know we can encourage our people to be
pleasant when dealing with vendors and the general public.
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Restrooms:
Tina writes:
>>At the Boardwalk, things are unclear to me, I've heard several versions,
>>but have not talked to the person involved yet. I was told that one of
[bobbitt]
>Well, on Thursday night after LaFemme, 3 of us (Cat, Samantha and I)
>were arriving at Boardwalk and we met another DLV girl coming out. I
>had to go, so I left the other 2 to talk with the DLV girl while I
>asked a bellman where the restrooms were. I followed his directions to
>the 1st floor restrooms on the far side of the casino, where I used the
>ladies room without incident. When I came out, I walked around for
>awhile looking for my friends (Cat and Samantha). I did see a security
>guard trailing along after me for a few minutes talking on his radio.
>I didn't think anything of it at the time. I didn't even notice him
>until after I had done at least one circuit of the 1st floor casino
>area (it's not that big). Don't know when he started walking behind
>me, but he didn't hang around long. Didn't seem threatening or
>anything.
>Anyway, after I located Cat and Sam, I heard the story about how the
>other DLV girl had been told not to use the ladies room. That was the
>conversation they had held upon our arrival while I had rushed off to
>the ladies room. So at some point relatively soon after this DLV girl
>had been told not to use the ladies rooms at Boardwalk, I went and used
>the ladies room.
>Now, that's the 1st thing that makes me mad. That someone dressed as a
>woman who is not causing a problem is denied use of the women's
>restroom. I know this DLV girl casually and I have a hard time
>believing that she would do anything to create a commotion. And I
>always follow Ann Landers advice: use the restroom of the gender you
>are dressed as.
>Now we come to the 2nd thing that makes me mad. This DLV girl (as I
>have heard the story second hand from Cat and Sam) had been told (by
>whom I am not clear) that arrangements had been made with Boardwalk
>management to encourage DLV girls to use the 2nd floor ladies room. As
>I understand the situation, this DLV girl was denied access to this 2nd
>floor ladies room. If these are indeed the facts, and I would strongly
>encourage a discussion of them here online including any type of
>response that Boardwalk management would care to give, let me try to
>explain why I am angry, beyond the basic fact that DLV people were
>denied use of restroom facilities.
>It is the fact that we were apparently to be segregated to the use of a
>particular restroom that disturbs me. Yes, I personally choose to
>often use out of the way ladies rooms when convenient, but that is my
>personal choice to avoid my personal embarassment. If I am in my own
>hotel, I will simply ride the elevator to my room and use the restroom
>there to ensure my own privacy. Again, my personal choice. But, when
>I have to go, and time is of the essence, then I will use the ladies
>room that is closest. I'm not interested in causing a fuss and I
>don't make a scene, but I do go. And I by God will not set foot into
>any establishment that wants to restrict me in that regard.
>Now, before I climb any higher on my soapbox, I would like to invite
>anyone formally associated with the Boardwalk to address the issue of
>where this 2nd floor restroom "suggestion" came from and what form it
>originally took. I certainly never saw anything about it online before
>DLV started, and I would like to understand more of the history behind
>it.
>Obviously, some folks had problems at Boardwalk this year. It doesn't
>take much to kill a place's reputation with DLV girls when it comes to
>restroom issues. Perhaps other DLV girls had positive experiences at
>Boardwalk that they might care to report online here.
Personally I had no problems at the Boardwalk, although I was in there
for maybe 45 minutes total. I spent most of my time in the bar/show
area. I found the bar staff to be friendly. I did use the restroom, the
one just to the east of the showroom. I wandered about, briefly to the
gift shop, and around the casino. I didn't get the feeling I was being
watched. (And I was dressed up for the show.)
I was told that there was a miscommunication in their security
department, and that possibly one officer had taken it upon himself to
give one of our people some extra attention.
If we are to enter into negotiations with the Boardwalk (or any
property) I would like to see restrooms be a non-issue, meaning we are
treated like every other group that uses the facility, I mean, I highly
doubt that a hotel's contract for the Steamfitters Union convention or
the Phi Zappa Krappa reunion stipulates which restrooms are to be used.
Comments?
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Can we tawk:
I would like to hear comments about this item, which frankly I was very
astonished and disappointed to hear. I did not think we would attract
people who did things like this, but ...
Had I heard this from only one person, I would have blown it off, had I
heard it about only one person, I would most likely have ignored it too.
How do I put this ...
Ya know, I think it's perfectly fine if somebody wants to attend DLV and
sell boobies. If somebody wants to sell Mary Kay out of the trunk of
their car, that's cool too.
However (comma) selling yourself is definitely un-cool!
I heard reports from several people regarding two individuals, one a
registered DLV participant, another a tag-along, who were, to put it
bluntly, looking for intimate encounters for money.
This is something that I, personally, want to distance myself from.
Ladies, this is not doing any good to our reputation at all. Over the
past several DLV's I always thought we have made a good impression upon
our peers, hotel staff, bar staff, etc., and the general public. Just a
couple incidents of suspicion, or worse an arrest, will very quickly
tear down what we've built up over the past 6 years.
I don't know how we should handle this. I do know that if we allow it to
continue, the word will get out to not only us, but to merchants, hotel
security people, bar staff, cops, if it has not already.
Comments?
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Leah's comments:
I've taken the liberty of moving Leah's note over here to the org list.
>On a different note...... a potential problem in years to come has
>kinda surfaced in my mind because a few girls reported some cat calls
>and such at the Sahara throughout the week............. do you think as
>DLV grows even more we should think about spreading the girls out with
>their room reservations?
If you look thru this mailing, there are comments by others that we
should concentrate even more.
There are suggestions that we limit ourselves to one suggested hotel,
and I see advantages and disadvantages to both concentrating and
spreading out.
>My thinking is that a bunch of girls in one place increases the odds of
>being read and once done the narrow minded creeps start looking for
>anyone over 5'8" in a dress.
Very true. I personally did not have any encounters with creeps this
trip, but others reported unease with the various jockish types who
haunted the Sahara over the weekend.
>The bar downstairs by the blackjack tables seemed to be a regular
>meeting and late nite place so that may have stuck out some but in
>general maybe just a precaution to help try and avoid the same in the
>future? I know of one girl who left early because she got embarrassed
>that way. Hate to see someone slammed back in the closet. Dunno.
My observation was that the mere hanging around that bar was not what
was attracting attention, but it was when the people had several drinks,
voices became loud and unladylike, they began joking around, and, to put
it bluntly, began acting like men in dresses that the attention was
turned their way.
>Sorry I didn't get to see you the week after Diva....work just piled up
>on me from the week before and I was just exhausted all week long. I
>think I saw the sun come up more times during DLV than all the years I
>have lived here and never quite caught up as yet. lol
Well, we looked for you on Wednesday and after the parade, but ... :)
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