Subject: dlv Kenny, feedback, photos, etc. ...
From: Annie (annie)
Date: Mon May 21 2001 - 22:39:12 CDT
In this mailing:
Lotsa feedback
Sad Kenny Kerr news
Blarg
Misc feedback
Photographs
On a related topic ...
More Burning Answers
Feedback feedback
Club feedback
Buffet feedback
Bar feedback
Administrivia
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Lotsa feedback:
Lots of good feedback here. I was going to wait until the middle of the
week to send this out, but the volume of material kept coming in over the
last day or so ...
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Sad Kenny Kerr news:
From Tuesday's RJ, Mike Weatherford.
+Female impersonator Kenny Kerr quietly folded his dress at the New
+Frontier, packing in his gowns after Saturday's show instead of trying
+to move beyond a three-month contract.
+"It's a good thing," Kerr said of the closing. The Frontier is "a tough
+location," partly because the hotel's main draw is Gilley's country
+dance hall -- where crowds don't seem to spill over to a campy drag
+show.
+The New Frontier's new afternoon show is adding two new shows: Kerr's
+evening slot goes to "Spencer, the World's Fastest Hypnotist" starting
+June 1, while "The Magic of David Darkstone" takes over the afternoon
+spot previously held by "Legends of Comedy," also June 1.
Comments?
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Blarg:
>>blarg.pinkmyst.com
>Wow.
Yes, she thought of you when she named it. :)
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Misc feedback:
>>> Toured through Speigals(sp?!) and quite frankly if I'd had the money I
[snip]
>> Hmmmmm ... I've been in there many times and I can't remember seeing a
>> shoe section.
>From the mall entrance, go to the middle aisle and turn left, away from
>the womens section and if you run into the wall you've walked through
>shoe section (and have now probably got a sore nose). It seemed
>reasonably extensive when I briefly shot through on my last visit.
Ok, I guess it's just about opposite the lingerie section then. Thanks.
>And before anyone gets off track about the comments about the location
>of Goodtimes, LV Lounge etc, my comments need to be put in context of
>being possible issues with new comers not showing up.
>I know the Goodtimes area well enough to feel relatively safe (and it
>wasn't my inention to knock the area either) BUT that was not the case
>three years ago when I first went there. It look a little daunting for a
>first meeting with a bunch of strangers. LV Lounge looks dark and not
>well lit (IIRC).
Here's a question ... When you (and others) went there, did you go when
it was bright outside, or at dusk/dark. As I try to think back to the
very first time I went in there years ago, it was just after noon, and I
do remember having trouble looking for the person we were meeting there,
as I had just come in from very bright daylight.
Goodtimes, however, seems to remain high on our most-liked bar list.
>Also about the Sahara food. What I said was it was not as good as last
>year. I didn't say it was bad. Actually I liked some things like that
>banana cream pie. Yummy. I wish didn't wear a corset 'cause it so
>restricts the amount of food I can eat :-(
I've got some more feedback here. This comes from Billhere's Las Vegas
newsletter, and it's his personal opinion on the worst buffets:
+The thirteen worst buffets in Las Vegas. These are listed in
+alphabetical order as I would suggest you do not go to any of them!
+Arizona Charlie's - East & West.
+Boardwalk.
+Circus Circus.
+Excalibur.
+Fitzgeralds.
+Gold Coast.
+Imperial Palace.
+New Frontier.
+Lady Luck.
+Sahara. <---------- Note
+Terrible's.
+Tropicana.
We don't have to go there again next year.
If we do a group buffet, there are many others that are good and equally
t-friendly. We've had groups at Palace Station before, and it's always
highly rated, although off the beaten path a bit. There were also some
comments about trying one of the more upscale buffets as well.
>My comments on restrooms would echo those of Annie's. Having been in and
>out of them many, many times I get the feeling that most women do not
>really take note of what's going on around them, not dissimilar to using
>a public men's room.
Most women in the restroom are there to do one (or two) things, and are
minding their own business, and don't go there to check out the others.
You'll notice the procedure is almost always this. 1. Go directly to a
stall (do not pass go, do not collect $200). This assumes there is not a
line, which occasionally there is. 2. Hang purse on hanger, sit, do it,
wipe, flush, etc. 3. Find a mirror and basin, clean up, check things
over, touch up makeup, etc. 4. Leave (don't forget purse :).
Dealing with the line will be covered in the upper-division course
numbered Restroom-403. :) :) :)
>I think style of clothes and dress sense would make a difference however
>ever.
Yes, I agree. Something out of place will attract attention.
>I would say that if you're uncomfortable doing a quite sneak and peek to
>check if its empty before going in is probably going to attract more
>attention than walking, finding cubicle, sitting, peeing and walking out
>again.
>Also, if you think someone has "raised an eyebrow", stay three or four
>minutes in the stall and the chances are they will have left. Unless
>you're doing something really crazy no-ones going to waste their time
>waiting for too long. Now if you doing something crazy you deserve
>everything you get.....
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Photographs:
>Finally I want to bring up another issue. Shortly after I got home, the
>list attacked me with a number of pleas from someone not publish their
>photos on the internet. Well firstly, I had to say, I didn't recognise
>the name, and I was tempted to ask if they could distribute a photo to
>us all, so we could work out which face to censor! :-)
>That aside I am now mildly p**sed off about not only that but the
>apparent request to ensure that her face be removed from all group
>photos.
>This type of blurring of faces tends to destroy or ruin the effect of
>the entire photo, not to mention add a lot of work for someone and even
>then there's no guarantee that everyone will honour the request. After
>all the ownership of the photo lies with owner of the film.
IMAO, a photo with face/eyes blurred/blacked is worse than no photo at
all. There's really no easy way to remove one person from a group photo
without it being blatantly obvious that the photo has been violated.
>It seems to me therefore that there are three issues
>a) Release of uncensored group photos
>While I understand that some people don't want their photos taken I
>think it is mildly silly/stupid/crazy to pose in a group photo and then
>complain afterwards that it will be shown, especially knowing full well
>that this entire event was organised over the internet on a medium with
>an audience of about a couple of hundred million people!
>Annie warned everyone of the group photos and I think it should be well
>understood that the group photos are public property and will be widely
>circulated. If you don't want to be seen, don't get in the photos.
I know I announced at LVL Wednesday, at Keys Thursday, and at Goodtimes
Friday to please wave me off if anybody saw me point a camera in their
direction and did not want to be photographed.
I remember announcing at the group photo on Friday (but do not remember
on Saturday) that at least one copy of the group would be appearing on
the DLV web page. I also remember mentioning to a few people that is was
perfectly ok to opt out of appearing. As I look back on the Goodtimes
photo, I can remember a few people who were there who do not appear.
Is there any question that the word did not get out about 1. being ok
to refrain from posing, and 2. that the group photos would be posted
on the Internet?
>b) Post event censorship
>While some people may not appreciate it before the event, they obviously
>see the problem afterwards. Should we allow post event censorship of the
>group photos.
There's always one photo which somebody does not like. Maybe they have a
bad expression, maybe they are yawning, maybe they just don't like that
shot. I think everybody deserves a small reasonable number of vetoes
just because they don't like the way they look in that particular shot.
>I see personal closeup, or small groups as being somewhat different
>simply because many of the those photos are actually clear enough to
>identify people however the group ones are pretty grainy and blurry.
And in small group photos, it's often easy to crop or break the photo
into two usable ones.
In our large group photos, the one at the Frontier could be used by
cropping out the rightmost few people. The one at Goodtimes is a real
challenge. (See various attempts in the page 8 staging area.)
>c) How to avoid repeats in the future
>OK, So how do we avoid a repetition. Do the publicity police make
>announcements before each photo shoot in large male voices so all and
>sundry can hear or should we reply on common sense (ROTFLOL).
One of the t* conventions (I forget which) uses a special color nametag
for those who do not wish to be photographed. We don't use those. Would
our people wear tags if we provided them?
Maybe we could make some no-photo buttons, you know, a big yellow button
with a camera with a slash thru it.
I don't think anybody present wants to "out" anybody else, or
intentionally use their images when they don't want them to be used.
Those who don't want to be photographed have to take an active role in
the process too. First rule: If you don't wanna appear on the web,
don't pose for the camera!
Let's approach this from another angle. The concern is that the person
will be recognized by (straight) friends, relatives, cow-orkers, etc.,
and outed.
I think everybody who has this concern will find that it goes away as
the confidence level increases and the amount of exposure to the t*
community and awareness of the t* web sites also increases.
With millions upon millions of web pages out there in netland, the
casual friend or cow-orker is not gonna zero in on a set of pages about
a t-party in Las Vegas ... unless they happen to be looking for such
things as TG events in Las Vegas.
Even if that relative or associate does happen to come across that group
picture, the chance he/she is gonna recognize the brother of anybody in
that photo is between slim and none, with slim being on a very long
vacation. :)
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On a related topic ...
There is a related issue, which I am a bit miffed about, and that is
people linking to the photo staging area from their personal pages and
posting the link in Yahoo groups and such. I thought it was very clear
that the staging area was to be semi-private for previewing of the pics.
Saturday's hit report showed one obvious link from a personal page on
Geocities. Sunday's hit report showed another personal page link and a
link from a message in an online group.
Either people are not reading the notices (they sure read it enough to
find the URL in there) or blatantly ignoring the request to keep the URL
private.
Yeah I know, bitch bitch bitch. :)
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More Burning Answers:
>>1. Of the activities you attended, which did you most like and why?
>>Which did you least like and why?
>I only went to two. Goodtimes Welcome and Dam Tour.
>This was my 2nd time out en femme. I still don't think I pass, and
>I'm a little bit discouraged when I look at how most of you all were
>comfortable with it. I'm still very touchy. Afraid I'll run into
>somebody from work.
>I really liked the Dam Trip, but that doesn't really count. I was just
>glad to get together with an understanding group.
>>2. Of the activities you chose to skip, why did you do so? Was it lack
>>of interest, schedule conflict, time crunch, too public, etc.?
>I skipped most of everything. I know I could never walk into Frontier
>and Tropicana for a show. I would freeze in the parking lot, I know.
>Shopping and stuff like that sounds like fun, but I know I don't pass
>at nigth, so the days would only be worse. Again, I can't risk meeting
>anyone from work when I'm out.
>>6. How were your hotel accommodations? Would you recommend your hotel
>>to other DLV people?
>I live at home, local.
>>7. Would you attend another DLV? Why or why not?
>Yes, I hope next year I'm more ready for this. I'm going to try to
>practice makeup and loose weight for next year. I've got to learn
>how to cover that beard shadow better.
Doing makeup takes practice. Lots of it. There are several tricks you
can use to cover the beard, some of them very good, others not so good.
Unless your beard is extremely dark, you might look into Dermablend,
which is sold at any JC Penney, Dillards, etc. It's a "corrective" cover
cream, used mostly for birthmarks, port wine stains, etc., but it does
do a great job on beards. IMAO, some of the other tricks like clown
white or the infamous "cheap red lipstick" trick are inconsistent in
result.
>>8. Would you prefer a more structured or a less structured schedule
>>of activities for DLV 2002?
>I like the fact you don't have to sign up and pay for everything,
>like you do at all the others. I like that you can pick and choose
>what you do.
>>9. Do you have any suggestions for other activities that you think the
>>group might enjoy?
>I would like things that aren't so public. Even a public gay bar is
>almost too much for me. I would just die if anyone from work saw me
>in there.
If a cow-orker surprised you in a GLBT bar, I can guarantee you one of
the following would happen.
1. He/she would not recognize you in girlmode, period.
2. He/she would be more shocked/embarrassed/shy/etc seeing you than you
would be to see him/her.
3. He/she would be very cool about it, and you would have somebody else
at work who shares some of your interests.
The transphobic jerks (who are becoming fewer and fewer, but still are
there, unfortunately) are not gonna go to a GLBT hangout, period.
>I would like to add a couple things, if you don't mind.
>I'm really glad
>you are doing this. I'm just becoming aware that there is a whole
>bunch in a real community out there, and I've been really ignorant
>of this until I got on the Internet. Thank you for doing this.
And you're very welcome. :)
>Also, can I make a request? Is there anyone who knows a good book
>on basic makeup? I'm still learning.
One very good book is _Making_Faces_ by {mumble .. forget the author}
which should be available at any B&N/Borders/Dalton/etc. There are also
tons of web sites that give the technique for a basic face, some good,
some not so good. :)
>Also, does anyone know a place
>around here that's more discrete than the big stores for buying
>makeup?
You are lucky to live in Las Vegas. It's a show town, and it's not at
all unusual for men to be seen buying cosmetics and ladies items. If
you're a bit shy to go to your neighborhood Wally World or Target', you
might try something like a 24 hour Walgreens in the off hours, one that
is in a tourist area, like one of those on the Strip. Locals seldom go
to those places.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback, and I hope we see more of you next
year.
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Feedback feedback:
>>You don't know
>>how many times I've dressed in a hotel room and dreamed about actually
>>going out and doing things and meeting people. It really happened and
>>I can't get over it. Thanks again so much.
>This hits home SO hard! I spent 10 years doing just that. I was so
>glad to find such an exciting and friendly group such as DIVA.
>>For next year, my dream is to be comfortable enough to go out shopping
>>and ordering off a menu. It seems so scary now, but until last week
>>just walking out of my room seemed too scary for words.
>I can't be comfortable shopping yet. Still do mail order. I want to
>so bad, but I know I would panic at a crowd. I really did order from
>the menu at the Sahara restaurant once. It was very un-nerving, but
>they treated me fine. Good meal too.
>One thing I'm still accommodating to is how to dress in public like
>a real woman. When you dress in private, you go for things like
>tight dresses and evening gowns. I was really surprized to see Gina
>and the others wearing pants. It does look more natural and passes
>a lot better.
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Club feedback:
Monique writes:
>I am quite well traveled due to my job and I have been to many clubs
>throughout the USA, Canada and the UK.
>I had absolutely no problem nor at one moment felt uncomfortable at any
>of the clubs on the DLV agenda and those that were not on the DLV
>agenda that were also t-friendly and accepting.
>I will be the first to admit that we girls have to be street smart and
>be aware of the environment that we are in, but in the 6 days and
>nights that I went out to the clubs in Vegas (LVL, Goodtimes, Gypsy,
>Flex, The Cobalt, etc). I did not have one problem whatsoever. My two
>cents worth.
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Buffet feedback:
>I don't usually do buffets in LV, but I had to laugh when I received the
>latest Bill Here's Viva Las Vegas newsletter and saw all the DLV-related
>hotels on the "worst" list for buffets. Here is the excerpt:
>> The thirteen worst buffets in Las Vegas. These are listed in
>> alphabetical order as I
>> would suggest you do not go to any of them!
>> Arizona Charlie's - East & West.
>> Boardwalk.
>> Circus Circus.
>> Excalibur.
>> Fitzgeralds.
>> Gold Coast.
>> Imperial Palace.
>> New Frontier.
>> Lady Luck.
>> Sahara.
>> Terrible's.
>> Tropicana.
>As I say, I don't usually do buffets, but Yvonne treated me to lunch at
>the Bellagio buffet, and that was simply wonderful. Although I was in
>boy mode, I had my purple fingernail polish on in plain sight, and no
>reactions. I usually avoid the casinos in the daytime while in drag,
>but would consider bending that rule for the Bellagio. It was very
>nice, and very open (tables not crowded together in the restaurant or
>the casino), so no feelings of claustrophobia. Big crowd in the casino,
>but not wall-to-wall people, if you know what I mean.
Let's maybe keep this in mind for an excursion next year. I know it's
a bit pricey, but probably not out of line.
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Bar feedback:
>Personally, I have no problem with any of the DLV locations (Keys,
>Goodtimes, LV Lounge) you mentioned. In 3 years, I have never seen
>anything in the parking areas around any of those places to cause any
>concerns.
>LV Lounge was a little sleazy this year, but I personally liked that in
>small doses. Goodtimes always seems just fine too me: not fancy, but
>always clean and safe. Ditto for Keys. All of these places are several
>cuts above the average place in New York or Houston.
>What LV seems to lack in the gay bar scene are really upscale places.
>Must be hard to compete against the casino bars and clubs in the glitz
>department. Maybe one way to handle this is to have one or more nights
>at upscale straight clubs for adventurous DLV girls. IIRC, this was
>suggested for this year, but there was no great response pro or con.
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Administrivia:
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Diva Las Vegas 2001
May 2-7, 2001
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